Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

how do they manage when a wealthy child with issues turns up?

How many kids with a reading age of 7 do you think has ever managed to get through the common entrance exam?

@noblegiraffe plenty of kids with a reading age like this are admitted to private schools who have the facilities to work with sen children. I know a 12 year old who could not read and write whose life was turned around, he took GCSEs A levels and got a good degree.

Noble
You are pretty much making the case to abolish PS.

Why should the wealthy get tax breaks, whilst the rest of us make do with inferior education and pay VAT on what we purchase?

But Just we are talking about schools like Eton becoming state schools. I don’t think they take many kids who can’t read.

You are pretty much making the case to abolish PS.

I don’t agree with the existence of private schools.

But they exist. Scrapping them would mean massive upheavals to the education system and the state system really can’t cope right now. Maybe some time in the future when the poor old state system has been given time and resources to recover.

And the easiest way to ensure they’re scrapped in future? Make state education good enough so that parents don’t need to (or don’t want to) consider private education.

So depressing to hear posters on here implying that we should reduce educational standards for everyone to the lowest standards out there in the name of equality. FFS

So depressing to hear posters on here implying that we should reduce educational standards for everyone to the lowest standards out there in the name of equality. FFS

Has anyone suggested this?

Not all private schools insist on common entrance noble

there's a school near us that converted from private to free school. A lot of the "ethos" seems to have remained, just it's open to more people :-)

Yes you go on telling yourself that. Mind you, there are some shocking private schools out there, the cheap ones normally.

So depressing to hear posters on here implying that we should reduce educational standards for everyone to the lowest standards out there in the name of equality

I don't think thats the purpose of their policy idea and no one on here has implied that, why don't you apply some of that private school ethos to your thinking and logic?

If PS's had been more like a charity instead of just taking from the taxpayer, then no one would have an issue with them.

IF this policy ever gets into Labours manifesto, then they only have themselves to blame.

Of course it’s being implied because anyone with a brain cell can see that’s exactly what would happen.

No funds to improve state education currently? Let’s spend millions on buying a load of private properties and spend many more millions trying to maintain them.

Let’s force another 700,000 children into that education system without any increase in the already meagre funds (I’m assuming you understand that a private education means the parents pay don’t you? And that without those parents paying, the funds have to come from the state education budget instead). 🥴

Shortage of teachers? Don’t worry, all the PS teachers will move into the state system overnight. Except, of course, they won’t so you somehow need to either magic up more teachers or increase already too large class sizes.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the effect this would all have on the existing state education system.

Therefore if you’re supporting this suggestion you’re clearly happy for the education of all children to be affected by it.

I’m not concerned myself as both of my DC’s will have finished secondary school within 18/24 months so I really have no vested interest. I can still see it’s a nonsense.

Dorset

You are getting wound up over very little.

Lab have said the first part of this idea would be to stop the tax breaks, the second part is to invest in state education, then look into how move private education into the state sector - that will take 2 Parliaments or more as brexit will take most of any govts time.

If this policy ever makes it into their manifesto and Lab get into power, then its the "will of the people" and we will all have to accept that.

The way you are going on, anyone would think its happening next week and all PS are to be made into hostels for the homeless... mmmmmm now there's an idea!!!!

@Dorsetdays

I don't think a single person has come onto this thread to suggest that a government should, overnight, seize the assets of all private schools, and the problems you're suggesting. It's this black-and-white catastrophic thinking that causes a lot of the problems in politics.

This is never going to happen. There was a motion passed at conference, and the Shadow Education Secretary has promised to establish a "commission to work on … the integration of private schools."

There are people on this thread who are concerned about inequalities in education, and some ideas have been discussed such as changing the tax status of independent schools.

You're overinterpreting what has been said on this thread.

My dc private school offers really good SEN which has been a God send as extra time has been awarded for GCSE's.
The reason she is there is for a specialism, which she chose for herself.
However, there was a school near us that we would have named as first choice.
Nobody else wanted it because of the results. The children almost all had SEN and the dept was amazing at getting the best out of the children.
Even though few GCSE's were passed the Ofsted report was always generous taking this into consideration. I'm going back about 5 years now.
Recently, maybe due to ofsted criteria, no allowances have been made it's now an academy trust and the one school in the area good for SEN is now subject to so much pressure.
The best teachers left along with their expertise to teach the bottom sets and SEN.
I'm so glad my dd chose her school, she won't ace her GCSE's and will be lucky to scrape the core Maths and English.
If they don't have it in them, it doesn't matter which school they attend.

Lapeste. You might want to re-read the thread then if you think posters haven’t said those things.

The idea actually stated is to ‘integrate’ Independent schools into state ones and seize assets not just remove charitable status.

If you’re genuinely concerned about inequality, channel your energy into raising the standard of state education. Not by removing all parental choice and by default lowering standards across the board, because like it or not that’s what would happen if you integrate both streams, for all the reasons listed over and over on this thread.

It’s simple maths.

The way you are going on, anyone would think its happening next week and all PS are to be made into hostels for the homeless... mmmmmm now there's an idea!!!!

A deeply stupid one, yes.

You're reading a different thread to me.

If this policy ever makes it into their manifesto and Lab get into power, then its the "will of the people" and we will all have to accept that.

All the more reason to ensure Labour remains in opposition, where they can dream their loony dreams to their spiteful little hearts’ content.

Why not address the inequality in the current state sector, which is completely in the control of the government, before attacking the private sector? Grammar schools, selective church schools, catchment areas meaning that you need to be able to afford £2m houses to get into the best performing state schools, state boarding schools with "state" day places compulsory wrap around care which costs £2k per term etc.

I think the inequality that exists within the state sector is shocking, and could easily be fixed by changing admissions criteria to a system which used a lottery system combined with ability bandings. For some reason there doesn't seem to be an appetite to fix the state system though!

I think a lottery system would probably improve the postcode lottery problem. But I think aiming to have general stability in health and education sectors rather than constant reorganisations would be sensible. Having pilots and studies rather than a Big Bang roll out would also be sensible...

A lottery system is bad for the environment, as it tends to increase journeys

A thought experiment:
currently 5% of children go to private schools. their parents pay taxes that are (partially) used for the education system they are not benefiting from (which is what they chose, so no complaints)
now all these kids go int the state sector. So we have 5% more kids, but the same amount of money, so effectively less money per child.
Additionally, costs go up, as more teachers, facilities, admin is needed.
As a consequence of both, there is a lot less money per child.
State schools are currently already struggling to make ends meet. Now their budget per child gets cut A LOT. education won’t get any better...
On top of that many ex private school parents now need less money and more time. So one partner will go parttime to cover for the lack of afterschool care, need for tutoring etc. so they pay less tax. while that won’t be a lot, it is painful for an already overstretched system.
I really can’t see education not getting worse under these conditions.

Wealthier parents will hire private tutors to teach their children in thier own time - solves nothing.

I detest the culture of jealousy this incarnation of Labour encourages.

I have said it before and will say it again. Not everyone paying for private education pays their way into the UK Tax system.