Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

I tried to compose a post to lay out how it might be workable but have given up because it is not.

Prerequisite for even trying would be a no deal brexit as any deal that had us still following EU rules would prevent this anyhow.

Nb1 - it would be completely impractical for most private schools to become state schools without a lot of building work as all the classrooms are built to take 15-20 students rather than a state school's 30-35. Also computer rooms, science labs etc all only kitted out to supply half the equipment needed for running as a state school.

Nb 2 - You can't do this without throwing the kids of military and other international workers under the bus, along with a lot of SEN kids. The former, plus the very wealthy, will decamp to a nearby overseas location instead so it's SEN kids that will be worst hit.

But you can get around the assets issue by getting each private school to create a separate charitable academy trust to proceed as a state school. They would each need an admissions policy based on random lottery with no catchment area, and would obviously need to sack half their staff and sell off some of their buildings and land for development of exclusive 3 & 4 bedroom homes in order to function on the £6k per child from the government rather than £15k from parents.

Obviously yes private medical treatment needs the same kind of policy. Also private nursing homes for the elderly. Private sporting facilities are way nicer than council ones too. There are vast swathes of industry that need destroying for the common good.

Would it not be simpler to simply change the tax liability on school fees and add 20%VAT or would one have to remove charitable status to do that?

Dianne Abbot said she would go to the wall to send her children to a private school. Does that mean she will 'go to the wall to stop this policy?

I think a referendum is needed because Labour voters dont understand the chaos this policy will cause.

Diane Abbot has since admitted that she can't defend her decision to send her son privately, so she won't try. Which I guess is an honest position, although it would be more honest to revise her position entirely so that she's not actively trying to deny other parents the same choices that she had.

The Labour leaders who send their children privately while advancing abolition of th sector are a perfect microcosm of why their socialist/communist policies are doomed to corruption and ultimately failure - because humans are hard-wired to seek advantage for their children. This is not a bad thing, it's the universe ticking along as it should.

No, you might not have to do that - but perhaps would have to change the definitions or laws about what constitutes a charity (at present education is a charitable aim in itself, and of course charities other than schools provide education. You may want a proposal that does not then add VAT to all education aims, to avoid charities having to fund a previously valid charitable aim from non-charitable funds. I have yet to see a proper proposal for achieving that - it is very complicated in law with much devil in detail. (So I tend to say that it's not really possible, but would of course change my mind as soon as an actual workable proposal is made)

You would definitely have to leave the EU first if you want to put VAT on fees, but I think that would be more achievable.

Becaue then you can make whatever changes you like to the successor consumption tax. O hope they don't end the current exemption entirely, as that also ends exemptions for nurseries/preschools and universities. I hope that successor tax for VAT will be properly and thoroughly considered, not just picked at (I'm not holding my breath)

Surely Diane Abbott's kid must have finished school by now??

But if Eton is closed down how will we ever have enough MPs?

@Walkingdeadfangirl a referendum is probably the last thing we need for a VERY long time

Ha if eton is closed down what will happen to British acting? Apart from anything else, I don’t believe for one minute labour have the brains to fathom the complexities of any of their more ambitious policies

Apart from anything else, I don’t believe for one minute labour have the brains to fathom the complexities of any of their more ambitious policies

They absolutely do not. Those two Es are looking pretty telling.

One near me converted into an academy, parents seemed quite happy their children stayed at the same school but they no longer needed to pay fees.

Eton could become a state school but as it is 100% boarding they would probably charge a fortune for the boarding side and extra curriculars.

So school fees go from £20 000 to £0
Boarding is no longer included in fees and now costs £20 000

State boarding schools exist, the education is free, you pay for the boarding.

I don't see a contradiction in supporting labour and sending your children to a private school.

I won't sacrifice my son for my own conscience.

One near me converted into an academy, parents seemed quite happy their children stayed at the same school but they no longer needed to pay fees

Ugh. Can't think of much worse than dds school becoming a bloody academy! Utterly depressing.

The point is - even if people ideologically wish for it, the govt is not competent enough to deliver. They need to pick manageable targets like tax rather than abolition which will cost a lot in lawyers fees etc.

It will lead to a massive “brain drain” as the highly skilled professional workers will simply move to another country that allows them to educate their children as they see fit...but that’s fine isn’t it as we’ve got plenty of doctors!

Most countries don't have such a large private education sector, how do they manage?

Why are some posters stating we need to leave the EU to put VAT on fee's ? thats totally wrong, as well they know.
Philip Hammond tried putting vat on fees but scrapped the idea after pressure from tory mp's.

Given many private school buildings and grounds are on long term lease from estates how would compulsory purchase work?

Also the 7% number is for across the U.K. and all school years. It's 15 - 20 % around here and higher for sixth form.

That's a lot of state school places to find in one small area! Our poor local schools will explode.

Putting VAT on fees is a different issue.

We are talking about them being scrapped altogether. I don't really care what Finland do tbh.

Yes the 7 percent figure must be much higher for 6th form

So if the schools are made ‘come one come all’ - so catchment areas etc, I can’t see how that would really improve standards. It would just lower the overall standards surely?

I went to a crappy state school. If we were to be loved wholesale into a private school you can bet standards would drop. Attitude of not working, not assuming uni (this was in the 80s so not everyone and his dog had a degree), bullying and general bad behaviour. Oh yes. Teachers could definitely handle all that.

It would take a long time to move over. But to basically seize private properties and business and redistribute to the masses? Hmmm where have I heard of that before?

Most countries don't have such a large private education sector, how do they manage?

The elite across the world send their offspring to the UK for school. It would be a crashing blow to the economy to send them away.

Are they thinking of this only in terms of if Brexit happens and families move out of the country? Do they think that there would then be space for all these extra children?

Sorry, that should say UK not country.

Of course other countries have higher private school numbers.

I believe that there are many expensive private schools in the US, people are already sending their kids to Harvard etc so why not private schools as well?

I'm not sure how I feel about this-where would those kids go to school? I don't think they should have charitable status.
Personally, I would like to see faith and grammar/selective state schools abolished first of all.