To think people just forget about kids with SEN?

[LloydBraun]

Labour Party bollocks about abolishing private schools all over the news.
I haven’t yet heard a single person ask them about impact on independent schools providing SEN education -often, with no equivalent state provision being available.
Seems like the only time our kids feature is when benefits are talked about. When it comes to the education which might help increase independence from the state - they don’t feature.
Makes me puke.

LloydBraun
The reason why many of these schools were created was because state provision either didn’t exist or was hopelessly shite.

Or alternatively because a 'one size fits all' education system doesn't work no matter how hard people try.

I'm sure the OP is right that SEN children at independent specialist schools have been forgotten in this announcement. But actually I don't think I would be worried.

The policy, as I understand it, is to integrate independent schools into the state system. As others have said, 100% of pupils at these schools are state funded anyway, so they already very well integrated (so well integrated that many people have forgotten, or don't realise, that the schools are technically independent). I'd have thought it would be pretty easy to integrate them fully into the state system and that in practice there will be little or no change for the children who attend them.

Where I think the problems will lie are with children who have less severe SEN and do not attend these specialist schools. A member of my wider family with ASD went to a 'normal' independent school. Her fees were paid by the LA because they could not provide a mainstream school that met her needs. Other parents pay for independent schools themselves in order to ensure that their children with SEN thrive. If there are no mainstream independent schools left, these will not be options.

I don't think the policy is well thought through, or that it will be easy to put into practice and I suspect if Labour gets into power it will be quietly forgotten. But that's easy for me to say as I no longer have school aged children.

Can I just point out that most parents who send their kids to private school don't have the means to send their kids to foreign boarding schools (nor would they want to!).

We send my daughter to the local comp. Many of my friends and contemporaries send their kids to the local independent grammar school. They are for the most part dual income professional families, and one single mum who works really hard full time. But they are all scared of the state sector despite being mostly state educated themselves. It's astounding how quickly people forget what they came from.

I disagree fundamentally with private education - I have no idea what plans labour have for the SEN sector although it seems to me that many of the current problems are due to EHCPs not being funded.

I'd be very worried to be honest. My child is at a specialist independent paid by the LA. Is not ea
I think the difference is that one system is top down so the state decides how much to spend on children first. They do it in best fit, arbitary bands and they are quite bound by LA areas in their thinking. However, charitable independent schools charge how much it costs to actually support the childrens actual needs. I think its important to have a sector that isnt based on, 'we have band 4 funding what can be done with that' but is based 'child x needs y, how much does that cost' I think it drives up standards in the state sector too. Much of the innovation and best practice for autism comes out of idependant charities.
Ironically my LA funded place is actually cheaper than the best fit LA school so its not just about money. Its about freedom.
That said, there needs to be a massive expansion of state provision and some of this issue would dissappear.

Also, TAs are not "inadequate people". The way in which TAs are deployed is often not for the benefit of the pupils but for the benefit of the class teacher. The person who is most qualified should be spending time with those who have most need - bunging SEN kids off in a corner with a TA is not good practice.

But they are all scared of the state sector despite being mostly state educated themselves. It's astounding how quickly people forget what they came from.

Or that could be because of having been state educated themselves, and seeing its shortcomings

“I have no idea what plans labour have for the SEN sector although it seems to me that many of the current problems are due to EHCPs not being funded.”
Or to put the point more succinctly; I don’t really know what’s going on and I’m not that bothered.
Ps re TAs - I’ve tried to train several to work on ds’s programme. None have ever done a good job. Mainly, low inherent ability combined with prolonged exposure to the culture of low expectations which prevails in the state sector for kids with ASD.

Are you saying there's a private school that would provide a scholarship for my medium-functioning autistic son?! Why has nobody mentioned this in the 3 years I've been fighting my arse off for a dx and an ehcp ?

@Cinammoncake given that they can all afford to send their kids to private school, including the single mum on one income, I think they've done OK. Mostly Russell group unis, good grades etc.

Most of it is snobbery - the idea that precious Johnny will get in with "the wrong crowd" or get bullied at state school because he likes chess. Because of course there's no bullying at private schools

My son is in a specialist independent because the state sector cannot ( or chooses not) to provide for him. There are no state asd schools within 2 hours of where I live. The LA would rather fund places in independent asd special schools than provide their own school.

Labour brought in teaching assistants, they oversaw the huge increase provision in support for SEND.
They also instigated the mass closure of special schools in the name of inclusion....a policy which was not properly thought through and and which has led to hundreds of child floundering in mainstream schools.

@RuffleCrow - i do hear of children getting bursaries at independent schools if they are academic and dont have behaviour issues - but op was talking more about independent specialist schools where you will still need that dx and ehcp to attend (although some let you start and help you with the ehcp) There is very little state provision for autistic children who need therapetic input but might cope with a handful of GCSEs or more. The state seems to do either therapuetic schools for 'low functioing' or there are a tiny number of academic schools which have a more autism friendly environment (smaller classes, more visuals, safe spaces) but they dont actually have the therapuetic input. Im not sure what you mean by medium functioning or where you are in the country. But i do wish you much success.

My daughter goes to a school that in the short time it has been open has gone from a school in a federation to a resource base. The difference this has made is shocking. Children who can’t cope in mainstream environments forced to integrate with parents dealing with the fallout in addition to seeing their once thriving child regress in every way. This by the way is a state school so the future Labour hope for. They can keep it!

I should add this integration is sharing their facilities with none of the benefits or mainstream sites such as breakfast clubs and after school clubs

So I did not manage to stop DS hearing this on the news and I now have a little boy who is anxious, in addition to all his other problems, that the school he thinks he’s going to next year may not be there.
Thanks, lefty fuckfaces. I suppose, in your minds, he deserves it, being so privileged and all.

Yeah because rightie cunts care so much about your son and his education.

As others have said, 100% of pupils at these schools are state funded anyway, so they already very well integrated (so well integrated that many people have forgotten, or don't realise, that the schools are technically independent). I'd have thought it would be pretty easy to integrate them fully into the state system and that in practice there will be little or no change for the children who attend them.

Ime, the non-maintained specialist schools have struggled for years, because LAs would not fund increases in the fees to take account of inflation, never mind improving provision. This has led to problems with staff, as they did not get pay increases - especially non-professional staff like the care staff on residential houses. Iirc, staff turnover on DD's house was around 50% per year.

However, at least the schools are independent - if they were fully under state control, I can imagine LAs putting a red pen through whole swathes of provision like speech and language therapy, on the grounds it all cost too much. The expertise, which only exists in the specialist schools would disappear, and they would become no different from the maintained special schools.

Agreed. My DS attends a private, specialist provision with all services on site. It's the only way to get a decent education for SN children in my area

my ds is asd. this september he has started attending a private online school. BEST thing we have ever done. He was barely functioning at mainstream, his mental health suffered to the point where a 12 year old boy was declaring to staff at mainstream he wanted to die. Add on the fact that according to everywhere in the NHS he didn`t fulfill any criteria for any help at all.

Now he is thriving.

where we live there is 1 small autism unit alongside the secondary with a nice 2 yr waiting list. Apart from that ds would be either expected to carry on at mainstream or be in a special school with children who are proundly disabled!

so guess what we did.....we sought a place ourselves and we bloody well pay for it!!!

but not everyone can. It shouldnt be like that.......

Quite obviously @Grasspigeons i mean that he is neither particularly high or low funtioning. He's in the forgotten middle. The schools you're describing are state funded, so not 'private' by any stretch of the imagination however independently they may be run.

I’m 100% with you OP. I have two boys in independent SEN schools. LEA pays for both. If they scrap these then my non verbal child with a adverage iq goes back into class with severe learning difficulties with his peers head butting the wall and eating play doh.

The other son has just escaped state mainstream where I was told he was doing great getting 0% exam marks

What makes you think any state funded special schools and units would suddenly be wrongly categorised as private and closed? The government has spent a decade rolling out academies it seems highly unlikely any government would do something so reckless, particularly given the strength of teaching unions in the Labour party. Is this just a scaremongering thread?

RuffleCrow sorry if i offended you. Its not a term i had come across before. I thought that anyone with an IQ over 69 was described as high functioning. i didnt want to assume your could read or write, let alone be in a position to study for gcses at some point.
The school i described is exactly what the OP was talking about. Independent specialist provision. Several different LAs may well pay the fees but they are most definately independent of the state and they are forgotten about in these proposals. You may feel they arent by any stretch of imagination private, but their business structure/charter etc is and OP was right to ask what happens to these if independent schools are banned.

I am fairly sure that my dc’s private special school would be swiftly shut down or amalgamated into a generic SN provision (rather than the highly specialised provision it currently is).

Why am I so sure?

Cost.

Because, as posters have outlined above, the school looks at the pupils first, and then provides what those pupils need. It doesn’t start with a (pitifully paltry) budget, and end up not being able to provide most of what the pupils need due to cost.

As I mentioned, my severely disabled dc was offered a mainstream place with access to a (class) TA for up to 7 hours a week. No specialised training, no SALT (because dc was non verbal, so SALT not appropriate ), no OT, no sensory integration, nothing at all. Just sitting in a classroom, not able to attend, take part, or develop in any meaningful way. That’s what the LA could afford.

At a state SN school (which we were offered once we moved to tribunal for the specialist placement), dc would have been in a class of 10, with 1 teacher. Again, no specialised training, no OT, and if lucky one SALT session per term.

The school dc is actually at provides: 1:1 full time for each pupil. There are 34 pupils in total, and there are 3 full time SALTs working at the school. I don’t know each child’s individual package, but I know my dc has an hour a week with a fully qualified SALT, who then shares the programme to be delivered throughout the week by highly qualified experienced tutors. There are 2 full time OTs, delivering full support to each pupil according to need, and there is sensory integration programmes available.

At the integration sessions for the mainstream SN school dc should have started at (we declined, oddly), we were told that we should accept that dc May never learn anything at school. At the age of 4, with no functional language, she was written off as unable to learn. That was what the state could offer her - virtually nothing (I’m not saying all state SN provisions are this bad, but there was no way I was consigning my child to that one!)

Her current school costs over two and half times what the state provisions is costed at. It’s bloody expensive. But it has given her a chance at a reasonable quality of life. She can now read and write, hold a conversation, cook simple meals, attends a scout group and was recently considered for the Scout World Jamboree - a million miles away from the nonverbal 4 year old who was treated as though she couldn’t learn anything at all (because she couldn’t function in the environment they had).

And yes, due to that eye watering cost, it would be shut down pretty fast. There is no way it would continue in its present form if it became a state school - policies would change, budgets would be cut, and the pupils would be the ones to suffer.