AIBU Greta Thunberg?

[onalongsabbatical]

AIBU to ask everyone who can to get behind Greta Thunberg, even if only online, as she's now getting a lot a lot a lot of hate. She clearly threatens people - especially her polar opposites, men, rich old men, powerful men (did I mention men?). Let's all give her the lurve and support she needs.
So on FB I challenged one just now - Why are you attacking a young woman? - and he disappeared. Funny, that.

I'd have a lot more respect for a politioco who says that we ought to get a few more modern Nuclear stations on the go, yes their bloody expensive but far more dependable than much else

Yep. I don’t want to sacrifice my standard of living; I want the developing world to work up to our current standards here. Renewables aren’t up to the job, so why not concentrate on nuclear? France is 70 percent nuclear and has among the lowest emissions per capita of Europe. No sacrifices. This is the way forward.

Not this anti-capitalist crap that will have us living like our grandparents and destroy our economies. Hundreds of millions have died from manmade upheavals in the past century; wouldn’t want a repeat of that for my children.

A hard no from me.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

If you look at that list, it's such a small representation of actual scientists doing research in the field, and it includes David Bellamy, or a handful of experts outside the field (e.g. theoretical physicists, etc).

I also am not a fan of young Greta but am a fan of the message. (Or, more fairly, should say of not a fan of whoever is behind her.)

I honestly think all of her travelling and campaigning and "deifying" a child will come to nothing. In the end, the child is being promoted rather than the cause from what I can see. Its all been done before.

I agree the hate is dreadful towards a child though. That's just mean.

Why are you not a fan, why will it come to nothing and when was it all done before?

@WallyWallyWally

Because a "sustainable" way of life is one that every single person on the planet is able to live (in theory at least) without affecting the ability of future generations to also achieve that same life.

Ok, agree with the basic definition.

What we in the West have done so far is that we have created a lifestyle / standard of living based on a stunningly huge amount of fossil fuel extraction and use - and by ignoring (externalising) the environmental impact of what we are doing - by exporting it elsewhere or just turning a blind eye to pollution, resource depletion, species extinction, loss of biodiversity

The focus there surely has to be on the words "so far".

So... if providing the "basics" to the small fraction of the world's population that lives in the West has created the environmental catastrophe that has been revealed to us in the form of climate heating... how do you think we can provide these basics to the rest of the world - to the populations of India, China etc who want what we've already had?

Your argument is that because most development has, to date, depended upon fossil fuel burning (and creation of pollution), then future development will also depend on it. That's not necessarily true.

And why does she need a future formal career? Why can’t she work it out for herself what she wants to do? Maybe she doesn’t need formality or a rigid career.

There is way too much pressure on teens these days. Yes get an education but it doesn’t have to be rigid or follow a strait jacket at 16. She’s done ok so far, not sure she needs career guidance.

@Chatt3rb0x over the years there have been loads of indulged children who have addressed the UN or who have been in public campaigns like this. I've seen quite a few over the years, maybe not so high profile, but can't even recall who they were now. I think down to social media.

It’s stepping out of the box that is making her so successful. We could all do with doing the same, mutely playing the game isn’t doing anything.

Could you link Opalinski

So the major issue people have with more environmentally-friendly living is that they don't want to sacrifice their standard of living? If we don't change people will die in their millions around the globe, doesn't that represent a slight drop in your standard of living? Do you think Britain will escape unscathed? We don't - can't - take on all the migrants who will want to come here to escape climate catastrophe elsewhere, and we also don't want the alleged drop in standards that they are causing.

Renewables raise standards of living by removing pollutants out of the general air supply. Nuclear radiation raises no one's standards. @PineapplePower, if you want "the developing world" to raise it's standards to ours, presumably you want everyone to have nuclear? Do you really trust every country in the world to have nuclear production capability, and to store the waste?

The Bill Gates doc on Nettflix was very Interesting. Gates has put a lot of money into developing scientific solutions to climate change. One of his strategies was to put a team together to rethink nuclear power station technology to make it safer and they were planning to build a prototype in conjunction with China. However the Trump administration put a stop to scientific collaborations with China.

it's such a small representation of actual scientists doing research in the field

While true, this is entirely what I'd expect in the circumstances. "Climate change" has become a vast, lavishly funded and very fashionable industry, and IME it's often wise to follow the money when considering the validity of reports

No doubt we'd all hope for scientists to remain completely uninfluenced by funding and report purely on a subject's merits, but all too often it's been shown not to be so

35% think YABU so presumably they think abuse towards this young girl is acceptable. Shameful, more like.

I think she's great.

While true, this is entirely what I'd expect in the circumstances. "Climate change" has become a vast, lavishly funded and very fashionable industry, and IME it's often wise to follow the money when considering the validity of reports

That's frankly conspiracy thinking. If you were to "follow the money", have you considered some of the following?
a) Who is going to the big beneficiaries of this industry? Do you think it might all be orchestrated by the big "wind power" magnates? Where is this money coming from?
b) Do you know how much the "lavishly funded" academic researchers get paid to do climate research, compared to what people with those skills could earn in other industries (e.g. finance)?

There have been quite a few kids who have been social campaigners and who have addressed large events or the UN etc
I think they have a teen address them each year - but only a few stand out (like Malala)

but just a few climate change campaigners (including Greta) can be found via a quick google.

www.greenpeace.org/international/story/20165/5-young-activists-who-inspired-us-this-year/

Oh and Severn Cullis-Suzuki!

You said it had all been done before and inferred it was pretty pointless. In those links I don’t see any who have achieved what Greta has full stop let alone in a year. And why is there no value in teens addressing the UN? Why don’t their experiences matter?

lavishly funded???? No it isn't.

here www.unmultimedia.org/avlibrary/asset/1991/1991366/

@Chatt3rb0x if you read what I have said., I did mention that I suspect social media and the way it is now has had a lot to do with the way that Greta has been promoted :)

Can I ask, in the nicest possible way,

What has Greta achieved?

I think there's also a danger with giving her too much support. The danger that, should it get too much, she'll feel she can't walk away or tone it down.

People are beginning to expect GT to turn out at every rally or, at the very least, send a message of support. Which is impossible because of the sheer scale of the momentum she's created. There will come a day when she needs to hand over the baton - whether that's studying, having her own family or just enjoying her life. She's become a figure head and that's dangerous because it's about rallying around Greta rather than rallying around the cause.

I don't agree with some of her methods - I don't think a strike every Friday is a good idea. My son's school didn't support it and I'm glad of that. I don't see protests happening during school holidays. I admit a strike in school holidays is a daft idea but the thought behind it was that the kids rallied to protest. You can do that on a Friday in August but I must have missed that on the TV - I assume it happened because climate change doesn't have a holiday...

Using a yacht to sail to the US was a master stroke (at first). I'd criticised her because she'd travelled by train to the UK but wouldn't go to see Trump because 'he wouldn't listen' (her words). My retort at the time was 'that's what being an activist is about - making those who won't listen; listen. You don't choose the easy targets, you go for the hard ones'. Nor would she go to China because 'you can't get a train to China' (yes you can actually as it's all overland from Sweden). So sailing to the US made me step back a bit. Then the crew flew home. At the moment she apparently has no idea how she'll get home following her four months of campaigning as the yacht will be back in Sweden...

It all seems publicity focused. Which is good in some ways because the environmental impact is huge. But it does mean she'll forever be on that merry go round. If she tries to step off is she going to get 'just do one more rally', ' the people need to see you', 'everything will go if you step down'. Far too much riding on a young person (man or woman). I'd like to see more proper support for her - more young people stepping up to be their own countries Greta - to take the pressure off.

Chatterbox And why does she need a future formal career? Why can’t she work it out for herself what she wants to do? Maybe she doesn’t need formality or a rigid career.

She doesn't need one - she can do what she wants herself. But firstly, I think she has a great brain and would be suited to gaining formal university qualifications and secondly, her USP is being a cute child. A middle aged climate change activist might afford her a living but its not a great fulfilment of her potential.

Overall, education and particularly critical thinking is something that is really beneficial to humans, while the lack of both is really beneficial to extremists in power, for whom uneducated masses are a dream ticket to hide corruption and abuse of power behind. So it would enable her to better fulfil her own remit. She also has a lot to contribute.

YABU It’s got nothing to do with liking or not liking Greta. It’s about the powers behind her and their financial interests.

YABU It’s got nothing to do with liking or not liking Greta. It’s about the powers behind her and their financial interests

YY to that