AIBU Greta Thunberg?

[onalongsabbatical]

AIBU to ask everyone who can to get behind Greta Thunberg, even if only online, as she's now getting a lot a lot a lot of hate. She clearly threatens people - especially her polar opposites, men, rich old men, powerful men (did I mention men?). Let's all give her the lurve and support she needs.
So on FB I challenged one just now - Why are you attacking a young woman? - and he disappeared. Funny, that.

These are all great ideas but the demonstrations can be in addition.

More people.

As someone on R4 said the other day they give mandate for conversation in parliament and elsewhere.

Any change in consumer demand away from harmful spending patterns will be brilliant. These people might not do targeted things but there’s every chance they’ll move towards greener choices.

Lastly I do know teens that are brilliant due to education in part and also awareness. Changed behaviour. In stark opposition to pp who felt depressed about message I find this very encouraging.

I do find some responses on this thread very depressing though.

TheOliphantintheRoom

I find her a precocious attention seeker

Sexism. I have never seen a young male referred to as precocious

Really? Daniel Radcliffe, Young Prince Harry, Harry Styles, Jedward, all precocious to name a few.

Litter picking is great for your immediate environment (so QualCheckBot I'm grateful for what you do and agree that more people should join in) but climate change could literally mean the end of the human society as we know it. They litter and climate change are very different issues.

Well done OP for raising a very pertinent point.

My 7-year old DD and I are firmly behind this very brave girl.
Not afraid of the media and she does not stand any BS.
After watching clips of her on Youtube, my daughter has given up all plastic toys and is cutting out meat as much as poss -
Greta has made a difference to us and inspires us to do better - I try to speak about her wherever I can.

Why does she have to be a scientific expert? It’s a fact that we need to do something. She is trying to get people moving, to get the subject pushed to the tip of the to do list.

Why does she have to write papers and be able to quote stats?We have plenty of scientists doing that and they don’t seem to be making much progress with getting their message across.

I think she's brilliant as well. It's the great knitted-brow expression on her face when she thinks someone's talking rubbish or won't listen.

All those in power should be asking themselves whatwouldgretathinkaboutthis
when they are considering climate related matters

Developing countries are being hardest hit by global warming, and if we cut our carbon footprint at the same time others increased theirs then there would be no net increase in carbon and things would be fairer

What would be fairer if they could enjoy our standards of living. Well-constructed homes connected to a reliable, stable energy grid. Well-maintained roads connecting villages to major cities. Cheap food produced by large agribusinesses for economies of scale.

I’ve seen Chinese families that have gone from crapping in a pig stye to indoor plumbing, with all the mod cons, in a single generation. It has immeasurably improved their life.

People talk about not going on long-haul trips or cycling to work. Try intermittent electricity and heating with firewood (killer on the lungs and one reason China — and Europe for that matter — lacks the native forests found in the Americas)

There’s no cutting of carbon emissions without substantial investment in nuclear. Germany is trying very hard, but only the price increases while actual carbon emissions seems to only go down very little.

Anyway, I’d prefer the developing world to have access to nuclear energy, maybe some renewables in more remote/otherwise appropriate areas. It would alleviate their suffering and allow them to prepare for climate change (i.e. land reclamation projects/infrastructure that can withstand unstable weather/GMO drought-resistant crops)

People who think that picking up litter will solve climate change - get real!

Developing countries are being hardest hit by global warming, and if we cut our carbon footprint at the same time others increased theirs then there would be no net increase in carbon and things would be fairer

We have already been cutting our carbon footprint in total and per capita for decades. But, like pineapple pointed out, because living standards have increased in developing countries, the net carbon footprint globally has gone up.

Jared Diamond wrote in 2005, in his book “Collapse” the following about the US (worst environmentally green 1st world country):
“Over the last 30 years, ...the US...has reduced levels of six major air pollutants by 25% even though our energy consumption and population increased by 40% and our vehicle miles driven increased by 150%” p523.

Europe is far ahead, and even the US is now fifteen years on from the above and catching up with getting to net zero for carbon.

Personally, I think once developing countries catch up, we will globally improve living standards and reduce the global carbon footprint. Much of the carbon emitted by China, India is due to old technology. We will level off (almost are in you look at charts) and start decreasing at an ever faster pace.

People who think that picking up litter will solve climate change - get real!

I didn't say that. How rude you are.

However, if less people thought about throwing away plastic litter, they might also think about buying less stuff in plastic containers.

Clearly the message isn't reaching a large swathe of people, judging by the amount of litter about.

Qual everything helps so it’s good. But can’t you see how you felt is how others feel when people say they are sheep and it’s pointless and worse. Better if we all do something in our own way without deriding each other don’t you think?

@QualCheckBot
Good question. I don't actually see mass demonstrations and virtue signalling as that helpful. I'm cynical about it. I suspect the type of people who do this might contain rather a lot of people who are so as I say, not as I do types.

Could not agree more. It’s easy to protest and blame the big bad Government, not so easy to take individual responsibility for your lifestyle choices. Protesters spewing carbon to travel around the country and wave paper signs, blast music and eat take out food is very very wasteful of resources and hardly the actions of someone environmentally “woke” enough to actually reduce their own foot print.

People who think that picking up litter will solve climate change - get real!

Litter is a very visible sign of over consumption. You should never have to buy snack food at all, let alone in packaging.

Woke is another word that signals stupidity from a poster.

I've followed some academic debates between climate change consenus scientists and so-called sceptics. I say 'so called' because they didn't deny the climate was changing, in fact I found it startling how much both sides agreed on. The main points of divergence were over the causes and solutions: the sceptics were more of the opinion that climate change is a cyclical phenomenon over which we have little control. (Now that really is scary.) They questioned the extent of the impact of CO2 and argued that curbing emission was not a harm-free endeavour - especially not for developing countries. They argued for more investment in sea defences and, yes more discussion of nuclear power. (Apologies to scientists for whom this must be bread and butter.)

Were they shills for big business and the nuclear industry? I don't understand the science and the maths well enough to say but I do know that it was a respectful debate. I had expected to have my smug liberal-lefty worldview confirmed but that did not happen. It made me realise that the arguments are far more nuanced than have been represented and I have concluded that demonising anyone who questions is highly dangerous.

@grumiosmum
“People who think that picking up litter will solve climate change - get real!”

It does a hell of a lot more towards solving climate change than going to a protest! When I lived in Florida, I regularly did beach clean ups. If I and others like me had not, then bye bye sea turtles. Every positive action that physically helps the environment is part of everything that needs to be done.

Including putting climate change in the minds of teens so they start to change behaviour.

Is it that people are trying try so hard to be above others with their superior thinking?

Why don’t you welcome this increased awareness

To Doctor

So everyone thinks they are marvellous and doing great things but no one else possibly could be. Why

I apologise to those I offended with my litter picking comment.

But I don't get why people assume that people who go on climate change protests are doing absolutely nothing else to help solve climate change? It's a huge generalisation, and not born out by my own experience.

The most important thing these protests have done is get people talking about the issues. I'm no longer embarrassed to talk to my friends about how we're eating more vegan food, cutting back on plastic and opting for train travel in Europe - because they see it on the news, they know it's real.

So many people conflate recycling with climate change. It's important, certainly, and a step in the right direction, but it's not enough to think that by recycling you've done your bit.

@MarshaBradyo
“Why don’t you welcome this increased awareness”

Because I have yet to see any proof that awareness has actually increased. IMHO, it’s singing to the choir because governments and scientists have been avidly working on environmental issues including global warming for two going on three generations now. It’s not news.

Oh come on a Doctor it’s precisely due to people like posters on this thread and their stubborn I’m not changing views that this is needed.

People are so shit even when the evidence is staring at them in the face.

Please take a few minutes to watch Greta's address to the UN today.
www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/23/greta-thunberg-speech-un-2019-address

Still even with the facts people doubt, they are selfish, arrogant, buoyed up by conspiracy theories, self interested, short sighted I could go on. So in the news for last few decades hasn’t been enough has it?