The NHS is falling apart

[Hold34]

I know there are many wonderful caring staff out there working in the NHS.

But overall, it's a bit shit isn't it? It's (mostly) not the fault of the staff. It's just underfunded and can't deliver what it needs to meet demand.

We all have to pretend it's great but it's not.

I think it is absolutely wrong to keep criticising the NHS. We have a service which is envied in other countries for good reason.

I have had cancer treatment which would have bankrupted me if I lived in the US.

I think all this criticism is a ruse to do away with it. Try to get people thinking they'd be better off with private care. I disagree.

It isn't, it's misused. A and E is packed with minor complaints that at one time would have a plaster on, drunks who should be in a place where they can sober up at their own rate, a large police cell maybe.
So we’d be spending money on police resources instead?

The NHS is wasting time on vanity projects, ears pinned back, bigger boobs, all in the name of 'self-esteem'. You don't like your body, tough, live with it.
Ridiculous suggestion. The money spent on these is minimal, you can’t just rock up the the doc for a breast augmentation. Being teased and picked on all your life can lead to mental health issues which are costlier to treat. Or don’t you think kids bully other kids anymore?

People who have 'addictions' such as gambling, hoarding that are now dumped on the NHS unnecessarily.
Clearly you don’t think the NHS should be treating mental health issues.

If the NHS were to stick to making sick people better there wouldn't be shortages.
Wrong again. Actually, if the NHS put more money into prevention and early intervention, costs would be lower overall.

There is some truth in most of the statements by PPs.
One thing I noticed during my 36 years as a hospital doctor was the inexorable rise of bureaucracy and management interference, hugely impacting our productivity.
When I started, in 1980, we were operating on 20 to 24 general surgery patients a day per theatre. By the time I left, this was down to 3 to 5. Mainly because the same checklist had to be filled in up to six times for each patient before we could start cutting. Pleas to do it just once fell on deaf ears. By the end, I couldn’t even insert a bloody cannula without filling out an A4 size form.
The NHS admin budget was just 5% of total when I started. It was over 12% by the time I left. Biochem labs in my local hospital were being converted into offices for the excess of new paper pushers who’d overflowed the admin block with their empire building activities. Someone was even employed as a car park Tsar, to refuse parking permits to critical care operating theatre staff, in favour of office managers who “need their car at work to go to meetings at the other hospital.”. Which was on a direct bus route.
I resigned when they tried to insist a secretary (with one hour’s training!) should inspect consultant dermatologists’ hands to determine if they had industrial dermatitis. And no, I am not making that up!

We’re the problem

We’re part of the problem.

I’ve written before about pharmaceutical waste. We keep being told that we need to stop that. But a medication DD was on for 6 months came in a 500ml bottle. She was on 1ml a day and the bottle had to be discarded 30 days after opening. We poured 470 mls down the sink every month. This is given to every preemie in Scotland when they are discharged and that wastage equates to a few million pounds. The supplier won’t supply smaller bottles. I’m not the problem there.

On A&E misuse, one of the reasons we see it is, GP and out of horse services are not great. When your kid has a temperature at 7pm on a Friday, where do you go?

There are issues with bed blocking because social care isn’t good enough. There are issues with mental health services because community is failing.

Far better joined up thinking would solve a lot of these problems and relieve pressures.

Out of hours obviously. No horses in A&E!

Mainly because the same checklist had to be filled in up to six times for each patient before we could start cutting.

I hear ya! I had a really minor procedure under GA earlier this year. 5 hours wait until I was taken through, and was asked the same set of questions about 4 or 5 times. Not just confirming my name and details. I completely understand the need to double check, and would be happy to do it twice, but the number seemed excessive.

My husband had leukaemia - he has had fantastic care so far.

I think it is absolutely wrong to keep criticising the NHS. We have a service which is envied in other countries for good reason.

Really? We should not mention the serious, distressing failings we've encountered just because you've have some good treatment, or it could be worse somewhere else?

The claim about the envy of other countries is also hugely overblown. Compared to many of our neighbours we're actually fairly much a laughing stock when it comes to timely access to the right specialists and treatments. People like you simply perpetuate the myth that because it's free and is in many respects impressive, that it's therefore somehow beyond reproach and the envy of the world. It's just not true I'm afraid. I say this all as a massive supporter of the whole principle of the NHS, but large parts of it are in serious trouble and putting blinkers on will simply lead to more deaths and more misery.

I've been diagnosed ON HOLIDAY for things the GP in the UK brushed off for years, after having a flare up of symptoms. Doctors thought it was nothing short of ridiculous I hadn't had the tests they carried out with the collection of symptoms I had, and made the very wise point that it's a pointless waste of time and money not properly investigating things as the patient will just be back in a matter of weeks again with the same issues. Granted, armed with a diagnosis the NHS treatment received became pretty good, but it shouldn't take YEARS to fix things that affect your life every day! We in the UK are often very bad at diagnosing and timely referrals. Our cancer stats prove this.

Of course, if you're rushed in dying they'll generally do an amazing job saving you (had that, very grateful). But the rest, the daily things that affect your life, can be very hit and miss and I'm afraid your romanticism will not silence my experiences.

The other thing is, even if it isn’t perfect, it is FREE. I know it’s paid for from taxes, but even if it’s not a perfect service being able to access healthcare without needing to pay is incredible.

I think it's a combination of funding cuts by the Tories, coinciding with a rapidly ageing population who live longer and need more care, and a culture of abuse by some patients.

The amount of patients that just don’t show up is increasing and so bloody annoying!!

I'd love to see the introduction of charges for those who repeatedly don't turn up to appointments. My GP has a screen in the waiting room with the number of missed appointments each week and it's routinely about 30. I bet if they started fining people £50 for each time they didn't turn up and restricted their ability to book new appointments until it was, this problem would disappear overnight.

That's not to say that privatisation is ever the answer. The minute you allow organisations whose primary aim is to make money to run the NHS is the minute our healthcare system becomes like America's, and that is terrifying. I see signs of it creeping in too, I was referred by my GP to a private hospital recently for tests without realising it was private until I arrived. I saw the exact same consultant I would have seen under the NHS, except the cost to the NHS must have been extortionate. How is this allowed to happen?

Really? We should not mention the serious, distressing failings we've encountered just because you've have some good treatment, or it could be worse somewhere else?

Only mention it if it is constructive. I think all in all we have an amazing free service. Nothing else is a good because private companies want profit. Premiums become unaffordable if you are considered high risk. Paying for continued care become a serious financial burden.

The only fair way is to tax everybody an amount they can afford based on their income. Some will never use the service much, some use it more but everyone pays what is affordable.

It’s underfunded to the point it ends up being deliberately misused, by everyone.. from company’s who won’t supply drugs in smaller quantities to people at a&e when a gp could see them but it’s an 8week wait.

Our local gp (unsure if it’s the norm) completely closes for all bank holidays and extra training days (old practice in a larger area would close say 1 day of two or half service for training) so if anyone becomes ill from Thursday to Tuesday or runs out of medication (no advertising besides a sign round the side of the waiting room on a4 black n white paper about closures) the nearest place to be treated is a&e 25miles away.. no minor injuries etc for 50+ miles (3 hours on public transport because of cuts to that)

It took 4 runs to the maternity unit for me to be diagnosed with pre eclampsia requiring immediate induction, every symptom gradually worsening for 4 weeks until I was seeing stars ghastly white and swollen like a balloon.. the 3rd run my bp was really high until the very last reading where it went really low.. so she took that one 80/45 compared to the 5 previous 140-160/98-104 and told me I’m not a doctor don’t do your own bp (worked in healthcare for 9 years doing bp’s and many more complicated tasks on the daily).. it was a pharmacist who took my bp and signed it with a note saying who she was etc that got me checked by a consultant in the end. Even with my own midwife stating my urine was literally 0.02 off of being admitted the first time I was up.

Our nearest mat unit has an alarming rate of complaints, but I can’t get to the next one (way too far if I went into labour) but not much gets done bar we’ll be more vigilant next time.

I’ve had a horrifically bad experience with the nhs, one that ended up way more expensive for them than it should have been initially and it involved a lot of different doctors who were wrong and dismissive.
I’ve also received shit mental health care from them. I do appreciate othershave great experiences but I personally don’t think much of it anymore. I know I should be grateful but I find it hard when I’m still living with the trauma and anxiety of what I went through

Only mention it if it is constructive

Otherwise keep quiet about the suffering you've endured? Highlighting a broken system you'd like fixed is constructive. Might be uncomfortable hearing it for those in love with the system or who work within it (though they're often the ones who really know what trouble we're in...), but it needs saying. There is no point pretending it works perfectly when the experiences of many and several vital statistics say otherwise.

The idea of charging patients for waste is an excellent one and is long overdue. Let's not kid ourselves that selfish patients are the root cause here. In other countries which have an element of co-pay up front for services, people still forget appointments or arrive late, because these are human beings we're dealing with. Reduction of NHS waste would obviously be extremely welcome though.

Free to all patients is a great thing. A very, very fine principle. It is of absolutely no use if you can't get to see a doctor when you're ill though, for example. A balance is needed somewhere, I feel.

I’m always bewildered when people say you shouldn’t criticise the NHS, why shouldn’t we? Tax payers are paying for a service we want that service to be the best. Shutting down discussion or complaints isn’t helpful. In fact more people should feedback to the NHS when they’ve had a bad experience. And staff don’t mind! I always actively encouraged patients to complain because the majority of the time they are perfectly legitimate complaints.
The thing to remember is when it comes to a general election think hard about what kind of NHS we want and need before you vote. When I met dh he was a junior doc and lifelong Tory voter, now after years of being a consultant under austerity measures he will never vote Tory again.

Highlighting a broken system you'd like fixed is constructive. Might be uncomfortable hearing it for those in love with the system or who work within it (though they're often the ones who really know what trouble we're in...), but it needs saying. There is no point pretending it works perfectly when the experiences of many and several vital statistics say otherwise.

Do this too much and people begin to think it is broken beyond repair. This gives an excuse for the government to sell us privatisation with the promise of a better service. This is what I fundamentally disagree with. We have a fantastic free service which means people aren't bankrupted by health costs when they fall ill.

The idea of charging patients for waste is an excellent one and is long overdue

Fundamentally disagree. It is a slippery slope. Privatisation by the back door. Which evidently is what you are promoting. Private health care.

Free to all patients is a great thing. A very, very fine principle. It is of absolutely no use if you can't get to see a doctor when you're ill though, for example. A balance is needed somewhere, I feel.

Yes, free to all patients is a great thing. Noble and good. And you absolutely can get to see a doctor if you need to. If not your GP an out of hours or walk in service. What is needed is not 'balance' but the end to austerity and an end to MPs attempting to capitalise on brexit in order to line their own pockets.

Labour were not any better ,managing the NHS , I was redeployed twice in 1_year due to cuts I think it was 2004-2005 so long veg 're the coalition government and then ,the Tories were elected .

We absolutely should criticise the NHS and we shouldn’t be accepting substandard care in many areas just because it’s free. This doesn’t take away from the fact that there are many skilled and wonderful HCP’s but it’s not a system which is fit for purpose. We are so used to shoddy service that we’ve lost track of what good care is.

I took my DD to an eye clinic in our local hospital. An appointment which could have been done and dusted in 15 minutes took 4 hours.

Wait in waiting room for 45 minutes
See one person who looks in her eyes
Back in waiting room for 20 minutes
In to see a doctor
Back to waiting room for 20 minutes
In to see someone else for 5 minutes to look in her eyes again
Back to waiting room to wait for prescription

Now tell me why we didn’t go in to see one dr who did the looking in the eyes at the same time as the test and wrote the prescription there and then. Utterly ridiculous and that’s my general experience of NHS hospital appointments

Long before *

Free to all patients is a great thing. A very, very fine principle. It is of absolutely no use if you can't get to see a doctor when you're ill though, for example.

This sums up my point really. I'm not saying it's not great in principle. But in practice, it's broken. This is based on a lot of recent experience by the way not reading the Daily Mail (!)

That doesn't mean there aren't pockets of good care and that the staff aren't working hard and doing their best with what's available .

NHS amazing! A&E last week. Son had broken his ankle. Completely fabulous, kind and a great service.
Best bit... we didn't have to pay.
Yes I know we pay some through NI contributions, but seriously in most countries x-rays, dr's etc etc would have cost hundreds.
We are so very lucky. Perhaps though there should be some charge, to take the pressure of the system. If we want something better we should pay more.

What x2boys said.

The waste is horrific, I work in the NHS.

We have a rehabilitation unit that keeps getting closed down and opened again, 6 times now and each time costs about half a million to refurbish and staff. Everytime it gets shut down all of the kitchen staff are fired and the kitchens are closed as the rest of the hospital doesn't need a kitchen.

It is outrageous and we are all up in arms about it.

What stupid remarks from posters

So why would charging be better? When people pay for services received instead of according to income? Where vulnerable people (as are many of the people who miss appointments) are charged for being vulnerable?

Surely taxation is designed specifically so people can pay according to what they can afford for lifelong health care? It is ideal in terms of making healthcare fair. Otherwise is the vulnerable and the sick who suffer more. When they already suffer more than enough challenges in life.

I'm a peadiatric nurse. I love the NHS, it's struggling because people's expectations have changed. People feel that get are far mire entitled to things "because I pay my taxes". Huge developments have been made in medical care. Things that couldn't have been dreamed of when the NHS was set up. The biggest problem for the NHS is the lack of social care.