Household chores and work hours

[boujie]

My husband and I both work fairly long hours.

His are generally 9-5, but roughly 4 times a month he will have to work until 9.30ish. He also has to work very occasional weekends (roughly 3 per year). He is entitled to claim this overtime back as TOIL.

My hours are more variable - normally 9-7, and once or twice a month I may have to stay very late. I am not allowed to claim this time back as TOIL.

The question is - would it be reasonable for me to expect my husband to take on larger household tasks on the time he reclaims as TOIL? In general we split cooking and chores more or less evenly (he does slightly more than me because he's at home more). I would find it helpful if on his TOIL days he would do occasional bigger jobs (like sorting the garage out / going to the dump / painting etc).

At the moment he tends to just use these days as leisure. He is a really generous and accommodating person, and I know if I asked him to do more of these jobs he would. For that reason I don't want to take advantage and ask him if it wouldn't be fair to do so.

What do you think? Since he's home more, should he be using some of that leisure time for chores? Or should that time be protected on the basis that it's to make up for times he was at work?

So your DH isn't allowed a rest?

Tell him what larger tasks need doing which either of you can do then put up a list e.g. on the fridge and leave it up to him to schedule them in, you aren't his mother.

I take flexi days on occasion. I'm sure as hell not doing 'big tasks' on those days.

Me DW wouldn't expect me to either.

YABU; it isn't "free" days off he is getting, its time back because he worked extra. He is as entitled to some down time as you are. I don't see why he should be lumped with the big, arduous tasks just because he has a penis. Why don't you guys work together at the weekend to get these things done? A job shared is a job halved.

YABU; it isn't "free" days off he is getting, its time back because he worked extra. He is as entitled to some down time as you are.

This is the point I'm trying to make, I suppose. He has a lot more down time than me because he gets back the extra hours that he works, and I don't.

I don't see why he should be lumped with the big, arduous tasks just because he has a penis

What does his penis have to do with it? It's a question of him having more free time, not a question of gender.

Why don't you guys work together at the weekend to get these things done? A job shared is a job halved.

This is how we do things at the moment and I am happy to continue if the consensus is that it's fair. The downside is that a lot of my free time gets taken up with chores while his is protected, and we are left with less time to do fun things together.

He's claiming back toil.
So the days he works longer hours to accrue the toil would you be happy if he telephoned you with a list of instructions for jobs to be done around the house?
You'd be told to piss off in my house.

9-5 is short hours not long 🤣

So the days he works longer hours to accrue the toil would you be happy if he telephoned you with a list of instructions for jobs to be done around the house?

I do understand this, but in our situation I am also working the long hours but not getting back the TOIL iyswim? I work longer hours than him even before you consider that he gets back all of the hours he works outside 9-5 and I don't.

9-5 is short hours not long

I get that! I mean long if you take into consideration that he also works late about once a week and also weekends. But then he claims that time back, so I guess his hours are really 9-5 (whereas mine are 9-7 as a minimum and frequently much more than that).

only way id see this is fair, is if you spent a weekend doing a big task and he didn't asisst as he was working, then he got days off in lieu , while you were working, but no just because you work a longer day is already sorted by the fact he does slightly more than you do , with both of you out all day and both doing chores how many more tasks can there be, split it evenly

YABU.. you said he's already doing more than you. isn't that enough? It sounds like you just want to keep a timesheet/tally of every single hour.

Do you get paid for your extra hours?

I see where you're coming from. You'd need to phrase it very specifically if you broach it with him I think. On those weekends where he's working and you're not, what do you do with your time?

YABU.. you said he's already doing more than you. isn't that enough?

Yeah, I think on balance he does a bit more than me, but it's a fairly even split (like in the region of 55% to 45%). I wouldn't say that the additional amount he does is in proportion to how much more free time he has than me.

It sounds like you just want to keep a timesheet/tally of every single hour.

No, not really. I would just like it if - to use an example to illustrate what I mean - the garage needs cleared out, he would make a start on the Friday if he has it as TOIL rather than waiting until the weekend and then us doing all of it together. I'm talking about jobs that arise now and then, not every time he has TOIL.

Do you get paid for your extra hours?

I am technically contracted 9-5 and receive a salary for my contracted hours. I am not paid any extra for working extra hours, but my salary is generous in recognition of the fact that long hours are the norm. I earn more than my husband and pay a correspondingly greater share of our bills to account for that.

On those weekends where he's working and you're not, what do you do with your time?

The usual stuff - weekend chores, socialising, downtime etc. He will then get those weekends back in TOIL, and tends to use them purely for leisure.

The usual stuff - weekend chores, socialising, downtime etc. He will then get those weekends back in TOIL, and tends to use them purely for leisure

So if he has a Friday TOIL, he does zero chores? Doesn't get the tea ready? Doesn't put a load of washing on?

You've not mentioned children so I assume there are no childcare responsibilities (school pick ups etc)

In our relationship things aren't always equal in terms of working hours/chores/free time as a lot depends on things happening at work and stress levels. I would definitely have a conversation, maybe he could take a Friday off and make a start on a big project, work together on it on a Saturday to finish and enjoy Sunday off together as a treat for finishing it? To my husband that would be better than him having a day off by himself, spending a whole weekend just doing projects and then back to work. Equally if I had a day off while he was at work, I might decide to spring clean the whole house/clean all the windows so that the house was nice for us to spend the weekend doing more fun things than housework. Adulting doesn't have to be split completely equally to be fair, but both partners need to do enough that the other isn't resentful and to allow some down time.

I'd absolutely hate it if my DH tried to tell me what to do with my non working hours aside from normal communication about child related tasks which cannot be left til later - nor would I ever try to tell him to clean out the garage or paint on his day off.

I couldn't stay in a relationship where my "partner" thought they could or should manage my time off.

Leave the garage and the painting. Just don't do it unless one of you chooses to.

You presumably chose the job. Personally I think people who choose to do jobs with more than an average 40-45 hour week are absolute mugs, unless they're saving the world/ humanity or on the breadline with no choice. Nobody owes you favours because you chose a job with long hours and poor terms and conditions. Perhaps look for a new job with fewer hours.

I used to think going on about chores all the time would ruin the mystery in our relationship and reduce it to a tedious round of menial work and no fun so I tended just to get on with things.
What did destroy the marriage and its "mystery" was that I ended up doing all of the housework, all of the paperwork, all of the garden including mowing and sorting out the car.
My exH did fuck all except enjoy his weekends off and lesiure time so began the nagging, him doing jobs reluctantly and badly and we split up - well that was one of the reasons.
If there is resentment and it sounds as if there is please discuss this with your husband and tell him that you are feeling resentful at carrying the load. Otherwise it will drive a big wedge between you.

She's not carrying the load though, she's already stated he does a larger share of the chores? I think she just resents his time off, even though he doesn't get paid for the extra hours he puts in at work and his workplace actually give back the time in lieu.

So if he has a Friday TOIL, he does zero chores? Doesn't get the tea ready? Doesn't put a load of washing on

Sorry, I didn't make that clear at all. Unless he's away visiting friends / cycling etc he will usually make tea, might also do odd bits like washing. More often than not though he will take the day as an opportunity to go and see a friend or similar and be gone for most of the day. I don't mind that at all, but now and then if there is a big job needing done, I would like it if he would make a head start if he has TOIL. Whether that's fair is what I'm canvassing views on.

You've not mentioned children so I assume there are no childcare responsibilities (school pick ups etc)

Yep, no kids - we will have to have a rethink generally about how we manage our time when we have kids!

Adulting doesn't have to be split completely equally to be fair, but both partners need to do enough that the other isn't resentful and to allow some down time.

I definitely agree with this! I'm not resentful yet, but the more my leisure time gets eaten into when his is protected the more I could see myself ending up that way. And my husband is a really decent and fair person - he would want this to be done fairly, which is why I'm considering discussing it with him.

I'd absolutely hate it if my DH tried to tell me what to do with my non working hours aside from normal communication about child related tasks which cannot be left til later - nor would I ever try to tell him to clean out the garage or paint on his day off.

Fair enough. I certainly don't want to end up in a situation where I feel compelled to tell him how to spend his time. It wouldn't be fair on either of us.

But I think that if one partner has significantly more free time than the other, it's fair to have a general conversation about whether it is therefore fair for the partner who has more non-working time to be doing a proportionately greater share of household tasks, so that both people in the relationship have the same amount of leisure time protected.

I couldn't stay in a relationship where my "partner" thought they could or should manage my time off.

Why have you put partner in scare quotes?

I don't want to manage his time off. I want to know if it's unreasonable for me to raise the possibility that since he has a lot more time off than me, would it be fair for him to use some of his additional time to get a head start on big jobs?

Leave the garage and the painting. Just don't do it unless one of you chooses to.

We both choose to do these things, because we like having a nice home.

You presumably chose the job. Personally I think people who choose to do jobs with more than an average 40-45 hour week are absolute mugs, unless they're saving the world/ humanity or on the breadline with no choice.

I'm a lawyer and I may well be a mug but if you ever buy a house or draft a will or get sued, I expect you'll be glad lawyers exist!

Nobody owes you favours because you chose a job with long hours and poor terms and conditions

I don't think my husband is doing me a favour by doing a fair share of the household tasks we both benefit from. Some on this thread have suggested he is already doing a fair share and I absolutely understand that perspective, but I don't consider him doing his fair share to be a 'favour' to me.

Perhaps look for a new job with fewer hours.

Something of an overreaction. I love my job and spent many years studying and training for it. I'm clearly not going to give it up because it leaves me less time to clear out the garage.

She's not carrying the load though, she's already stated he does a larger share of the chores?

He does a larger share of the chores, but not by much. And he has proportionately much more free time than me. So it's like he has 50% more free time than me, but only does 10% more or the chores (not accurate numbers, just giving an idea).

It may be that I should just be grateful for what I have, but I'm interested in whether people think this is fair, or whether I should be trying to shift things a bit so that we both have the same amount of free time protected.

I think she just resents his time off, even though he doesn't get paid for the extra hours he puts in at work and his workplace actually give back the time in lieu.

I'm not resentful. I would like to avoid becoming so by achieving a fair balance. I don't really think we have managed that yet.

Surely life isn't that scientific?! DH is self employed, and because of what he does, during the week he could if he chose have a lot of free time, or he could work. Sometimes that means I come home to an immaculate house, sometimes it's a shit tip because he's decided to work all day and somehow make a mess at the same time, and then I spend an hour after work getting things straight. It really doesn't matter. There are weeks where I do fuck all, there are weeks where he does fuck all. I rarely do the floors, he rarely does the washing. I do most of the cooking even though he's at home all day. Currently i want a couple of the rooms redecorated..I'll probably do that myself over a weekend as he doesn't like painting, he'll probably be watching the football. We both agree that at some point the garage needs clearing but either we'll tackle it as a job together, or one of us will get started if we have some free time and fancy doing it. Between us we try to accommodate everything that needs doing, in a way that maximises the down time we have together and the separate down time each of us needs, which is different at different points depending on health, work stresses etc. If one of us would like the other to do a specific task, we ask.

It wouldn't occur to me to do some mathematical formula to work out if he's doing his "apportioned" share, that's just weird IMO!

I know you put that you pay a bigger share of bills. Do you also give him a share of your extra fun money, given you want a share of his extra time, or do you keep your non-bill money separate?

boujie I put partner in quotation marks because as soon as you start managing your spouse or partner's time and telling them what they must do with their non working hours on the basis that you work more it isn't an equal partnership but a manager - subordinate relationship.

Doing half the chores isn't doing you a favour. Doing more than half because you chose a job you love which demands more hours than the job with a sensible work life balance does, is.

Do you do jobs whilst he is working those weekends? Or do you have leisure time?

I think if you are cleaning out the garage or whatever while he is at work , then his day off should be spent the same way. Assuming you both benefit from the clean garage.

If not then, I’m not sure on this one. He gets less free time because you chose and enjoy a demanding job ? He presumably chose an easier job because he values his free time more.?

I wouldn’t like it if my partner wanted to even out our free time, when they chose an over time profession and I hadn’t.

If you average his 6 days per year of weekend overtime and say 3 hours OT per week on average, he is working about 42 hours per week. You are working about 45?

So a 45/55 split is already actually in your favour.

To be really petty, you would need to factor in differences in annual leave and commutes. But it's pretty petty already.