Household chores and work hours

[boujie]

My husband and I both work fairly long hours.

His are generally 9-5, but roughly 4 times a month he will have to work until 9.30ish. He also has to work very occasional weekends (roughly 3 per year). He is entitled to claim this overtime back as TOIL.

My hours are more variable - normally 9-7, and once or twice a month I may have to stay very late. I am not allowed to claim this time back as TOIL.

The question is - would it be reasonable for me to expect my husband to take on larger household tasks on the time he reclaims as TOIL? In general we split cooking and chores more or less evenly (he does slightly more than me because he's at home more). I would find it helpful if on his TOIL days he would do occasional bigger jobs (like sorting the garage out / going to the dump / painting etc).

At the moment he tends to just use these days as leisure. He is a really generous and accommodating person, and I know if I asked him to do more of these jobs he would. For that reason I don't want to take advantage and ask him if it wouldn't be fair to do so.

What do you think? Since he's home more, should he be using some of that leisure time for chores? Or should that time be protected on the basis that it's to make up for times he was at work?

Though, that is missing the point actually, as he gets the time back. Hmm. I do see what you are saying, but it does seem petty.

If you average his 6 days per year of weekend overtime and say 3 hours OT per week on average, he is working about 42 hours per week.

I think OP is saying because he gets the time back in lieu then he's always doing the equivalent of just 9-5 a week and she does 9-7 a week and some late nights that she doesn't get back.

So he might be doing a 35hr week (assuming hour lunch) and she's doing 45hr week (assuming hour lunch).

But totally agree it's coming across as very petty.

The problematic element in your imbalance of free time is your job, not his. He's working enough hours. You don't address it by reducing his free time but by increasing yours. You don't want to do that, so IMO you absorb the consequences.

It sounds like he's already doing his fair share. I think it's fair enough for him to use his TOIL time as he wishes.

I think, as well, it's not like the OP is saying he gets all the free time and she gets none as she's doing all the chores, it's just that he gets more free time than her (and does do approx 10% more of the chores).

She's basically saying if she only gets X days off then she only wants him to have X days too, and any other spare time should be spent doing household jobs whilst she's working.

There aren't even children involved! Goodness knows how they will manage that!

I know you put that you pay a bigger share of bills. Do you also give him a share of your extra fun money, given you want a share of his extra time, or do you keep your non-bill money separate?

Yes, we both have the same amount of fun money. I pay a greater share than him of our bills and savings, and we're both left with the same amount for fun. I wouldn't want that any other way.

boujie I put partner in quotation marks because as soon as you start managing your spouse or partner's time and telling them what they must do with their non working hours on the basis that you work more it isn't an equal partnership but a manager - subordinate relationship.

I don't think this is a fair characterisation of what's happening. I'm discussing raising with my husband the possibility of him using some of his free time - which is significantly in excess of mine - to do some more household things so that we both have the same amount of leisure time protected. I think you can agree that this isn't the same as me managing his time.

Doing half the chores isn't doing you a favour. Doing more than half because you chose a job you love which demands more hours than the job with a sensible work life balance does, is.

But he benefits from me doing this job too because he shares in the benefits of that job. He lives in a nicer house, has better holidays, gets to experience more things (all things he appreciates hugely) because of the salary I get for my job.

Fundamentally I guess it comes down the question of whether chores should be split as close to equally as possible regardless of circumstances, or whether they should be split according to who has more time in which to do them.

Do you do jobs whilst he is working those weekends? Or do you have leisure time?

I do a mixture of chores and leisure every weekend (unless I am working, which I occasionally am).

I think if you are cleaning out the garage or whatever while he is at work , then his day off should be spent the same way. Assuming you both benefit from the clean garage.

If not then, I’m not sure on this one. He gets less free time because you chose and enjoy a demanding job ? He presumably chose an easier job because he values his free time more.?

No - he gets more free time than me, even if he used some of his toil for chores.

I wouldn’t like it if my partner wanted to even out our free time, when they chose an over time profession and I hadn’t.

That's fair enough (though as I said above he also benefits from my profession).

If you average his 6 days per year of weekend overtime and say 3 hours OT per week on average, he is working about 42 hours per week. You are working about 45

So a 45/55 split is already actually in your favour.

To be really petty, you would need to factor in differences in annual leave and commutes. But it's pretty petty already.

This isn't right, because he gets all of his overtime back as TOIL. So he works 35 hours per week, whereas I work as absolutely standard 45 hours per week, but it's often more like 55 (and can be 60-70 when things are very busy).

That means there is a fairly significant difference in the amount of leisure time we have, and while he does do slightly more chores than me, it's not proportionate to how much more free time he has than me.

She's basically saying if she only gets X days off then she only wants him to have X days too, and any other spare time should be spent doing household jobs whilst she's working.

As I've said before, I'm not expecting him to use all of his TOIL on chores. I would just like it if, when there's a big ad hoc job, he would use some of his TOIL on that, rather than it being equally shared between us (and therefore eating a disproportionate share of my free time)

No boujie I don't think I do agree - you do want to manage his time. You don't want him to have more free time than you despite the fact that he chose a career with a good work life balance which gives him free time, and you chose a job with less free time.

You very much do want to manage the extra ten hours per week he has. You want him to use the time for chores in order to reduce his free time and bring it in line with yours. At the same time you retain the smug psychological advantage shown in your last post of bestowing benefits and experiences upon him. It does indeed begin to have a manager- subordinate ring...

Of course talk to him. However he does work full time already - anything over free time is, tbh, your own choice and not his. You earn more than him but he earns a full time salary and doesn't owe you anything. You choose to work long hours and he chooses not to. Any conversation about evening up your free time needs to take into account that you have chosen this career and he has chosen his. If he made his choice because he values free time over money this is legitimate, and it's not his fault you chose to value money over time.

I think everyone should have the same amount of leisure time

Op, I do see your point but your earnings are being willingly shared whereas your partner isn’t willingly handing over his extra time.

Why not use some of your extra earnings to get someone in to clear the garage and other jobs.

Win win.

No boujie I don't think I do agree - you do want to manage his time. You don't want him to have more free time than you despite the fact that he chose a career with a good work life balance which gives him free time, and you chose a job with less free time.

As I've now said several times, I don't mind him having more time than me. I'm not seeking a perfect apportionment of chores and time. I just think that at the moment the balance isn't right. I don't have enough free time to feel rested and fulfilled. I think it would be fairer to shift the balance a little.

You very much do want to manage the extra ten hours per week he has. You want him to use the time for chores in order to reduce his free time and bring it in line with yours. At the same time you retain the smug psychological advantage shown in your last post of bestowing benefits and experiences upon him. It does indeed begin to have a manager- subordinate ring...

I don't think there is any realistic prospect that you won't try and put the worst possible spin or draw the worst possible inferences from what I say, but I will do my best.

I don't want him to do more chores as a way of bringing his free time down to be in line with mine. I want us both to have a decent amount of free time. At the moment, it feels like he has loads and I don't have enough. I think there is a way of shifting the balance so that we both have enough. He will still have more than me, which I don't mind, but I will have enough to feel rested / recharged / fulfilled etc.

If you have money, can you get someone to do the boring chores? Get a cleaner etc.

Op, I do see your point but your earnings are being willingly shared whereas your partner isn’t willingly handing over his extra time.

I think this is quite a good summary.

I earn more, and I proportionately share the money I earn so as to ensure that we both have the same amount of money for fun stuff.

My husband has more time, but at the moment that time isn't being proportionately shared so as to ensure that we both have the same amount of time for fun stuff.

And I'm not actually looking for us to have the exact same amount of free time - I understand he will always have more. But I think the balance could be better, as I don't currently feel like I have enough.

I also don't think that earnings should be tied to leisure time. I don't feel like because I earn more, he should do more around the home. I want all of 'my' money to be shared with my husband so that we both equally benefit from it. But just like money is a resource which we share in a way which makes sure we both have enough of it to have fun, time is a resource which should also be shared so that we both have enough of it to have fun.

If you have money, can you get someone to do the boring chores? Get a cleaner etc

This is definitely something worth considering!

I don't have enough free time to feel rested and fulfilled

Good luck when you have children 🤣🤣

At the moment, it feels like he has loads and I don't have enough.

Let's break it down:

You average 50 hours a week? (I know you said you sometimes do more but we need to look at averages).

He averages 35, so has an extra 15 hours a week free time.

He already does about 10% extra in chores (how many hours is this? As it needs to be deducted from his 15 hours a week if we are to be fair).

How many hours of this 15 a week do you want him spending doing more jobs?

Oh and in the interest of balance and fairness, how much annual leave do you each get? As that is time off work too.

I don't have enough free time to feel rested and fulfilled

Good luck when you have children 🤣🤣

Not going to lie, this is a major consideration! We're not absolutely set on whether we are going to have kids or not, and do appreciate it will be a major life change if we do.

You average 50 hours a week? (I know you said you sometimes do more but we need to look at averages).

He averages 35, so has an extra 15 hours a week free time.

He already does about 10% extra in chores (how many hours is this? As it needs to be deducted from his 15 hours a week if we are to be fair).

I would say it's like every weekday he's doing 40 mins of chores and I'm doing 30 mins (again this is averages and a bit of guesswork!). At the weekend we probably both do a couple of hours a day as standard (we do the same as each other at weekends). So every week he's doing about an hour more than me.

Then there are the ad hoc big jobs we've been discussing - sort outs / paint jobs / whatever. These can take a few hours at a time depending on what they are. These are split equally between us (we do them together).

How many hours of this 15 a week do you want him spending doing more jobs?

Most weeks I don't want or expect him to do any more than he usually does. If a big job needs done and he has TOIL that week, I would like it if he made a start. I don't know how that would average out as a weekly thing - let's say we're talking one big job a month and he puts 4 hours into it. That works out at about an hour per week on average (but obviously in real life varies from week to week).

Oh and in the interest of balance and fairness, how much annual leave do you each get? As that is time off work too.

He gets 41 days per year, I get 34 (that's including bank holidays for both of us).