To think it's unfair to boat Boris Johnson for the state of the NHS

[InkedGreen]

Or the Tories for that matter, labour started with the privatisation of it and the tories carried it on (at a slower pace).

But ultimately the NHS is underfunded because the general public don't want to pay more. Sure lots say they are happy to pay more, but when it actually comes down to it most aren't happy.tp do so. We have a buldge of people reaching retirement age and more tax needs to be paid to have a good health service but no party is talking about increasing taxes to cover health care. What the NHS does with its budget is good, but other countries pay far more per head and get better results.

What's a "buldge" of people?

And what is "boating"?

I do not understand your OP.

Sorry I found that completely incoherent.

Tories are definitely to blame for systematically underfunding the NHS, policies BJ helped to orchestrate and voted for.

If you look who benefits directly from PFI etc, all the top tiers are tory.
It isn't anything to do with funding, they don't want to keep the NHS so why not profit and have it privatised?
Capitalism.

I've never encountered 'boat' used as a verb in that manner, OP. What does it mean?

Rubbish. The NHS is funded via the budget, which is entirely down to the sitting government. As the current figurehead, Boris Fuckwit Johnson should be the one who gets shouted at for it.

And yes, Labour are as complicit as the Tories on privatisation. It's been nine years since they had anything to do with it though, that's a long long time even in NHS terms. If the Tories weren't ideologically against the NHS and also largely on the board of private medical firms, they could have improved things. But no, they sell off the profitable contracts to private firms (who do a shit job), and then point at the rest of the NHS and say it's unprofitable so it needs restructuring. Which costs, eating up any money that has been promised as a sop to the media.

There could be more money in the NHS by reverting those profit centres, but there's no political will for that. Because there's money in MPs pockets from the selloffs.

Other countries pay the same level of tax for less than the NHS offers (USA) or more for more (France, most European countries). In reality the NHS is bloated - remember it’s one of the biggest employers in the world, comparable to the Indian / Chinese army, and has more employees than even the indian government. Considering the size of our population that’s ridiculous and all the governments know that which is why money can’t be thrown at the NHS. The only thing that will work is the adoption of new technologies and a bottom up review of all the processes, costs, procedures and services the NHS offers which is a huge job as even most trust managers probably don’t know this for their own trusts.

I think the OP means 'beat'.

The stories have chronically underfunded the NHS for years, pushed for top heavy management structures with less front line staff and have a deliberate policy of running it into the ground via extortionate PFI agreements to ensure it can eventually be sold off to make themselves and their cronies millions.
So yes I do blame him, and all his Eton friends who will profit from its demise.
Wake up. They are in power for the benefit of themselves and only themselves.

Stories is obviously Tories. Bloody phone.

I thought "boat" is "blame" in title. Anyway, we can get the jist.

Austerity was a tory decision. Austerity is an ideology not an economic theory. It's an ideology related to small state. It has actually been proven to have a detrimental effect of the poorer and a beneficial effect for the rich. It causes economies on the whole to shrink.
Economies are not ike household budgets, it is a myth. The nhs is in the state it is because of tory ideology. (Knife crime similarly.) The rising health issues are also related to poor investment.
PFI issues are related to labour. This was a bad decision that had poor contracting aroundvit. The need for PFIs could also be related to previous poor investment.
Having worked in and around the health service for decades, the most money has been wasted by political tinkering and reorganisation of the deck chairs. Those decisions are made at a ministerial level. The majority of tinkering has been done by tory governments.

Ohhh. You meant "beat" - not "boat".

Right.

YABU in that case.

I still don't understand the word "buldge" though.

And yes, Labour are as complicit as the Tories on privatisation. It's been nine years since they had anything to do with it though, that's a long long time even in NHS terms.

I do agree. But if labour had of been in for the last 9 years do you think it would be any different?

The greens are the only ones talking sense about raising taxes, but no one votes for them.

It's beat. Why doesn't MN join the 2019 and allow you to edit?!

buldge, you all know exactly what I mean. Don't be a dick, I'm dyslexic.

Whether or not you're dyslexic YABU to blame anyone other than the Tories for the current state of the NHS, InkedGreen.

But it is the Tories fault the NHS is in the state it is so you are totally BU. Why should the general population take the blame for not paying enough tax? We could pay 2 or 3 times as much but its not going to go to the NHS or other services in dire need its going to be put towards vanity projects like HS2 or Brexit.

Personally InkedGreen I think you need to stop starting contentious threads and find something more productive to do.

Well I still don't agree it's wholely their fault.

Most people want to pay as little tax as possible and vote for people that do that then complain when public services are underfunded

@SmileCheese reducing demand on the national grid to keep the lights on is not contentious and I think NS is fab. But I won't dare say that again here!

I do agree. But if labour had of been in for the last 9 years do you think it would be any different?

Labour lost the election because they had spent all the money - if you remember the joke by the leaving labour finance minister - 'the coffers are empty'
Hence, I suppose, the years of austerity. But any gov that bumps up tax to pay for the nhs will be voted out. That is why it doesn't happen with either party.

Labour lost the 2010 election because of the world wide banking crash.The present shower has borrowed more than every Labour government out together. Austerity was not to repay the debt it was to cut the welfare state

buldge, you all know exactly what I mean. Don't be a dick, I'm dyslexic.

I don't have a clue what you meant, still don't. And since you didn't mention you had dyslexia how on earth is anyone a "dick"?

DH and I have had some pretty serious health problems in recent times.
Our care has been exemplary. What I have seen is people screaming at nurses and doctors, demanding this and that. There's so much waste of materials and equipment.
I worked for the NHS when over management and meaningless box ticking came in. Started by the Tories and continued by Labour
As far as I'm concerned they're all as bad as each other.

Well I assumed the man who collared bozo yesterday was going to talk about the EU staff and Brexit.

But no, the NHS has been underfunded for as long as I can remember.

You cant blame Labour for the state of tge nhs. 9 years is long enough to have made an appreciable difference.... which they have. The Tories have made it worse!

" Bulge of people" clearly refers to the post war boomers retiring but underfunding of health and social care can fairly be laid at the feet of Johnson and the Tory government.