To think we'd all be happier if the referendum had never happened

[Songsofexperience]

So tired of it all. It's like a persistent rash that won't go away. Far worthier projects are shelved on a daily basis.

Yes, I do and yy, billions thrown at this shit that could have been invested in the country but instead we have this.

Yes, I agree, or at least government/parliament could have had a plan for the obvious leave vote, or not implement A50 until they had gone to the EU and negotiated.

Heck yes! I hope there is a special place in hell for “Call me Dave”

not implement A50 until they had gone to the EU and negotiated.

To be fair this was not an option. The EU27 did not want to negotiate until the UK had formally triggered the departure process.

The EU27 did not want to negotiate until the UK had formally triggered the departure process.

True. We (by which, of course, I mean Parliament) could have decided what we wanted from the negotiations before pressing the A50 button, of course. Not so much 'Brexit means Brexit', as 'Brexit means X, Y, and Z'

Given billions of tax payers money is being spent on something that will make us all poorer I never want to hear the usual suspects whinging about magic money trees ever again.

Yes I think so too. Or if we'd voted to remain.

I think it will be a great many years before we get past it. What was it Rees mogg said, it will take fifty years before we feel any financial benefit? That's not even get back to where we are today.

Our kids, our grand kids. This will be divisive and impact many lives for years to come unless they manage to stop it.

The British public should never ever have been asked. We simply didn't have enough info to decide. No one did. There is no way round it. And I don't think we should be asked again. Because we still don't understand it fully as a population and you just need to look at the threads on here to know it.

yes I agree. The fallout and constant bickering is tiring and at it's worst scary. Only the most extreme on either side would want a situation where our PM (I don't like him btw) is screamed at during official press conferences and female barristers/MPs/activists are harassed and threatened as they go about their business, none of this is OK in a civilised society. Everyone has strong opinions but am tired of people being called traitors and betrayers on either side. This only leads heated emotions and further violence. It makes me desperately sad. If I could turn back time and stop the referendum taking place I would.

I don't know. Its engaged people in politics for the first time in decades. It's given people a cause and something to talk about. It feels like brexit has become the new religion. I don't think we'd be happier without it. Obviously I'm excluding those people who's lives are directly effected like EU citizens living here etc.

The thing is , there is no easy way back now. If it's stopped, yes, our society will remain financially stable, but there is huge democratic impact.

If we don't stop it, then we our society, and the people it comprises will be hurt badly. But democracy remains.

Either way there will be protests, and in the event of no deal likely riots, there is simply no easy way put now.

Yes. It was a very, very foolish political decision. But it does point to a problem with our politics: parties are now so bothered about the short term win of an election that they don't care if they throw the country into the manure to secure one. If it hadn't happened, we'd have had a Labour government by now, and we would be in a much nicer place with a fairer tax system.

YANBU

I think it's shown what an arse our political system is, and I really hope that lessons are learned for future generations.

I have high hopes in Boris though. If anyone can "do" Brexit, it will be him.

Spot on OP.

The referendum was never really about Britain’s place in the EU. It was only ever about setting an internal argument within the Tory party, and Cameron’s need to keep his right wing on board and not defecting to UKIP. Cameron would certainly never have called a referendum if he thought he would lose it.

The Remainers never seriously expected to lose, and the Leavers never seriously expected to win. Both were stunned by the result, and had no idea what to do next.

Yes, we would. Although, all the things that were making people's lives a misery that led to them voting Leave as a protest would still exist.

One of the most sickening things for me is the billions that have been wasted on this effort to make us a diminished country in every way. The money was obviously there and available. Why wasn't it spent on improving schools, hospitals, care, services?

Brexit will blight our lives for decades to come. Especially if we leave with No Deal. Then we will just be scrabbling around trying to negotiate from a position of incredible weakness.

We've gone completely mad.

I had always considered it one of those things that politicians put into manifestos but never had any intention of actually doing anything about, like nuclear disarmament. They could talk about it, bicker about it and keep the status quo.

Cameron actually calling a referendum and it suddenly ending up actually happening was a total shocker. Not least for him. No one actually had to jump off the cliff though.

What really gets me now is the cost. The financial cost that could have gone against any austerity cuts. The nastiness, the uncertainty.

I would be really interested in the experiences of anyone who experienced the previous referendum on membership of the European Community. Was it as divisive and nasty?

I vaguely remember the first one - I was a child at the time. It wasn't at all divisive or nasty from what I remember - but the UK was in a bad way economically and EU membership was clearly a necessity if things were going to improve.

Yes. One, barely anyone was arsed about the EU until it introduced tax loophole laws and two, so many things are being neglected in favour of Brexit. Like infrastructure. I got stuck on a train during the heatwave this summer for nearly an hour because the heat damaged a signal point. The country isn't prepared for extreme weather. Trains are delayed all the sodding time. But nope, Brexit is the only thing that matters now.

There was growing hostility to the EU from the voters. That's why Farage and UKIP became a threat to both major parties. Both Labour and Conservatives had pro and anti EU factions within them for decades.

Anyone who thinks it would have all disappeared if there'd been no referendum needs their head examining. UKIP/farage would have got ever bigger shares of the votes in GEs and MPs in Parliament. That could have led to more coalitions with the UKIP/Farage having power (a bit like the libdems with the tory/libdem coalition and the DUP with May's Parliament), which probably could have done even more damage.

When the anti-EU feeling was growing, we should have had some proper leadership to smooth the waters. Instead we had Blair allowing unlimited free movement (to rub the noses of the Right in diversity) followed by Brown's "bigotted woman" gaff - both of which played right into the hands of Farage.

No, I think we would be happier if the referendum was honoured and not drawn out with 3 years of fighting and getting nowhere.

Of course, leaving the EU isn't going to make everyone happy, but staying isn't either. Hence why we had to have a vote to decide which option was more popular.

Certain newspapers played a large part in whipping up anti Eu sentiment. UKIP were a non entity given a platform.

I would be really interested in the experiences of anyone who experienced the previous referendum on membership of the European Community.

It was for a completely different thing. It was for the EEC - a free trade agreement. It didn't include common currency, European court, European employment laws, freedom of movement of people, etc etc.

And yes, there was a lot of trouble and objections. It basically crippled our fishing industry as we had to allow other countries to fish in our waters. Entire fleets of fishing boats, entire fishing communities were put out of business. Likewise, it damaged our farming industry.

Yes and No- I do believe the anti-european feeling was mounting and that UKIP would have taken a big hold of parliament over time.

I think the $hit show we have now is partially down to the vote itself but slightly more so:
the inability for plans/provisions in place for a leave vote
the inability of parliament to compromise
the inability of parliament to honour the vote, its honouring of article 50 which it triggered.

Overrall I think the referendum has highlighted (not caused) what a few of us already knew - many MPs arent fit for purpose and the country is fractured.

The first referendum was about the common market which is totally different to the EU now.