To think we'd all be happier if the referendum had never happened

[Songsofexperience]

So tired of it all. It's like a persistent rash that won't go away. Far worthier projects are shelved on a daily basis.

Hmmm yeah, I am not sure if we would have all been happier or better off.. But I do wish it had never happened...

FWIW I voted to leave, but wish we could just go back 3.5 years and not have the blasted thing. It's caused SO much bad feeling.

Would be quite happy to just cancel it now.

"Anyone who thinks it would have all disappeared if there'd been no referendum needs their head examining. UKIP/farage would have got ever bigger shares of the votes in GEs and MPs in Parliament. That could have led to more coalitions with the UKIP/Farage having power (a bit like the libdems with the tory/libdem coalition and the DUP with May's Parliament), which probably could have done even more damage."

Or - an alternative history - the rise of UKIP could have split the right, resulting in a Labour majority, which would actually have done quite a lot to alleviate the underlying conditions that were causing people to vote Leave. We could have dealt with it economically, rather than politically by tackling the desperate cuts to the public sector that drove so many people to think that controlling immigration was the answer ("I can't get a doctor's appointment (due to cuts) - it's because of all these immigrants!").

Its engaged people in politics for the first time in decades. It's given people a cause and something to talk about.

It's also made the "sheep" think about who they usually vote for. You know, the ones who don't show any interest in politics, but always vote for the same party because their parents/grandparents did. The sooner they start to actually research and think, the better. For those, say, who are die-hard Labour, but don't like the EU, they have to think for the first time, like the die-hard Tories who like the EU. It's no bad thing to shake things up a little and get people engaged.

Or - an alternative history - the rise of UKIP could have split the right, resulting in a Labour majority, which would actually have done quite a lot to alleviate the underlying conditions that were causing people to vote Leave.

The country was going more anti-EU throughout Labour's 13 years of power. Lots of Northern towns went downhill economically during those 13 years. Why do you think another 5 year term would be any different?

"The country was going more anti-EU throughout Labour's 13 years of power. Lots of Northern towns went downhill economically during those 13 years. Why do you think another 5 year term would be any different?"

Because 'Labour' and 'Tory' are labels that disguise a very mobile politics underneath: comparing New Labour with Milliband with Corbyn is not comparing like with like. Similarly, the Tory governments of the last 10 years have been far, far more right wing than those of the 80s and 90s. The programme of Ed Milliband was far more left-leaning and redistributive than that of Blair. (New Labour did a great deal to exacerbate inequality in this country).

God yes. We should be demanding Dave the idiot’s head on a plate.

While immigration was an important consideration for the electorate, EU membership really wasn’t.

Just 3% identified it as an important issue to them in an Ipsos poll six months before the election.

In reality the referendum was called to silence Tory infighting.

Now the country is totally divided and no solution in sight. Great result

Also, another alternative history: imagine we'd actually seized the opportunity offered by the Leveson Inquiry and actually done something about the appalling state of our press? If we'd worked to elevate public debate and inform people about the world, instead of printing headlines about 'cockroaches'.

imagine we'd actually seized the opportunity offered by the Leveson Inquiry and actually done something about the appalling state of our press?

A million times this.

I don't know. Its engaged people in politics for the first time in decades. It's given people a cause and something to talk about.

You could say the same thing about both world wars.

To think we'd all be happier if the referendum had never happened
Exactly, Sherlock!

So, so much to agree with on here.
Yes and No- I do believe the anti-european feeling was mounting and that UKIP would have taken a big hold of parliament over time.

I think that if the real growing practical concerns about immigration among the people at the bottom had been acknowledged early and actually investigated, instead of dismissed as 'racism', then anger would not have mounted in the way it has. Actually, I can say that about most things - practical concerns about poor public spending on infrastructure, NHS, local government, libraries, etc.

I absolutely despise the way media has been whipping up hostility law and order and political institutions too. They might not be great but they're what guarantees civilization against anarchy and chaos.

I think that if the real growing practical concerns about immigration among the people at the bottom had been acknowledged early and actually investigated, instead of dismissed as 'racism'
totally agree with this- and yet still the word racist is thrown around at anyone who doesnt like an open door immigration policy. Merkel herself, when Cameron explained the issues the UK was feeling at this, said tough you dont have high unemployment so theres no problem.

Grrr. The one big issue - well one of them - I have with the EU is that they don't seem to accept diversity between regions. Cameron should have been able to explain simple population density. He perhaps wasn't the best person we could pick in the UK to explain and defend UK interests. Of course, it wasn't the EU who refused to exercise opt-out rights to control immigration, or bleed the public sector dry.

That bridge from Northern Ireland to Scotland that they're talking about, that costs £15 billion. How can anyone say that's a better investment than spending £15 billion on deprived areas in this country?

Until someone has a better reply: this isn't something I know about. A quick google says that engineers have poured cold water on the idea. However better transport and communications between outlying regions, especially the islands, parts of which probably are classed as deprived, doesn't seem like a bad idea? What do you mean by 'this country'?

You and other remainers may be happier but the majority voted leave and they wouldn't be. If you want to be unhappy and constantly moaning about it which achieves nothing, that's your choice.

By 'this country' I didn't mean England! I just meant that if there's £15 billion going spare then it could be divided amongst those areas who are suffering economically, rather than being spent on a bridge.

I'm not sure. I'd be happier but I can't speak for everyone else. If we didn't have such a lying incompetent shit show of a government I'd feel happier.

Yanbu! It's totally fucked up the Country

I gather the engineers' objection is the sea and wind and ain't much going to change them. Let's hope it does get targeted more effectively.