Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try to cycle inoffensively?

236 replies

Confrontayshunme · 17/09/2019 14:28

My DD started a new school about 1.5 miles from our house. We don't own a car, and my husband and I cycle everywhere. I am a VERY law abiding cyclist and super conscientious not to make drivers or pedestrians angry. To this end, I never zoom around cars at intersections and endeavour to actually just get out of the way at all times. I frequently stop and just get off the road to keep from annoying drivers. Please don't just start with the cyclist bashing, as I am really desperately trying to do the right thing and not annoy people.

The problem is that the shared pedestrian/cycle path between our home and school is closed for about a year for building works. There is a partial cycle lane for a bit of our journey, but car parking on both sides makes it too narrow for cars to go around if DD and I both go on the road, but I can't be near her on pavement due to said cars parking and it being a very narrow pavement.

DD is 7 and very confident riding and stopping and listening to me, but I am struggling not to get shouted at by motorists. I am definitely NOT doing anything illegal, but I just think busy people near a school and industrial estate in a 20mph zone = a lot of verbal criticism and stress for all.

I have done all of the following and been shouted at by drivers for every option.

AIBU to ask which of these is the LEAST anger-inducing for drivers (particularly industrial vans, since we are by an estate)?

  1. Child on pavement in neon jerkin and me on bike going a slowish 8mph (but cars can go around at 20 if no cars on opposite lane).
  2. Child in front of me on road (not visible to drivers so I can see why they yelled at me for being slow). This feels the safest to me, fyi.
  3. Child in neon jerkin to the left of me, visible to drivers but only small cars able to go around due to both of us being on narrow road.
OR (haven't done this)
  1. Both of us on pavement (though technically against code for me to be there and there are pedestrians).

I really do welcome any advice as I can't seem to get it right. Recently, on a marked bike lane near us, a car screeched its brakes like it was going to hit my DD then laughed out the window and shouted "f---ing cyclists" so I am desperate to get it right so my DD is safe.

A friend said to just go on the pavement as long as the shared path is closed, but that feels like breaking the code and I really don't want to.

OP posts:
spanglydangly · 19/09/2019 23:07

Indeed. I mean I spent eight years at university and then twelve years of work to get the qualifications and experience that I needed so that in the long term I'd be able to work the hours that I wanted to.

And thank goodness others spent their precious time going into caring professions!

Rubicon80 · 19/09/2019 23:13

@ItsGoingTibiaK Yes, the law is clear. But - and I'm sure you know this but are choosing to omit it, as you have clearly done your research - how that law is policed and enforced, as for all other laws, is decided by the Home Office and the National Police Chiefs' Council.

As you say yourself - the law is clear. Why do you think it's OK for cyclists to break that law just because, in practice, they can generally get away with it?

I see car drivers using their phones at the wheel every day. In practice, that law is not effectively policed and enforced - do you think that makes it OK?

Ditto for people walking down the road smoking weed. Just because police ignore law-breaking in practice, doesn't equate to it being OK.

And can you please point out where Cycling UK have said the Highway Code is "only advisory" (your quotation marks, my bold)? I've searched extensively and the closest I can find is on www.cyclinguk.org/article/whats-legal-and-whats-not-your-bike where they say:

Sure. Here's a long quote:

Where a HC rule is expressed as something you 'must' or 'must not' do, the rule reflects a legal requirement imposed by legislation, breach of which is a criminal offence.

Where a HC rule is expressed in advisory terms, using words such as 'should / should not', or 'do / do not', the rule doesn't reflect any legal requirement. A failure to comply with such a rule can however be used as evidence in both criminal and civil proceedings. For example, a driver's failure to comply with advisory overtaking rule 163 when overtaking a cyclist too close is relevant to whether they have or have not committed a careless driving offence. Similarly, in civil compensation claims, non-adherence to HC rules is often raised when liability (who is to blame, and who should pay) is determined.

So, ignoring for a moment HC advisory 'should' and 'should not' rules, what are the absolute must do legal requirements?

You're right that they don't use the exact phrase 'only advisory'.

However, it's crystal clear from the context here that they are repeatedly using the term 'advisory' to mean 'something that you can ignore/something that doesn't really matter'.

They even say, verbatim, "ignoring for a moment HC advisory 'should' and 'should not' rules".

In fact, they're not 'ignoring it for a moment' - that whole page (and I found several similar ones on various cycling websites) is about "what can you get away with, legally".

I'm familiar with this sort of argument from drugs websites and advisory resources - how can you, in practice, push the boundaries of the law?

The key difference here is that, unlike drug users, Cycling UK are openly and actively encouraging people to break a code (the Highway Code) which - even if it's not enforceable as absolute law - exists to protect the safety and physical wellbeing of OTHER people.

If I were supporting their view here, I would question why their primary concern is what you can get away with legally - as shown in their repeated use of the term 'advisory', set up in opposition to 'legally obligated' - rather than respecting that the 'should/should not' advice - regardless of its legal status - is there to ensure people's safety.

"The optics aren't great", as they say.

Rubicon80 · 19/09/2019 23:14

@spanglydangly Indeed, and I believe I said exactly that in my post?

I've never expressed anything other than gratitude and respect for people in the caring professions. And I don't believe it has any direct relevance to this thread, unless you can point out to me where I've missed the OP mentioning that she is a paramedic/nurse/doctor?

ItsGoingTibiaK · 19/09/2019 23:57

@Rubicon80

"Why do you think it's OK for cyclists to break that law just because, in practice, they can generally get away with it?"

Because - as I've evidenced in my post - there is a specific intention by the government and the police that this is a law in which discretion should be used and that, in some circumstances, cycling on the pavement is to be allowed. The people whose job it is to create and enforce legislation have specifically said so.

"I see car drivers using their phones at the wheel every day. In practice, that law is not effectively policed and enforced - do you think that makes it OK?"

No, because when this was introduced as a specific offence, at no point did the Home Office categorically make a statement saying that this law should be policed with discretion, as they did for pavement cycling.

As for the Cycling UK page, I think it's a matter of perception. To me, your long quote says the same as the official introduction to the Highway Code - some of this is enshrined in legislation, some of it uses "advisory wording" (direct quote from the HC), but if you don't follow it, you may find it's used against you at some point.

I assume you're using your quotation marks loosely again for "what can you get away with, legally" as I can't find that phrase anywhere. To me the page is showing the legal requirements, and then applying some level of critical analysis to the should and should not advice. Nowhere, to me, does it say that people should ignore all of it. And it absolutely, categorically, does not imply that the Highway Code, as a whole, is advisory.

The optics very much depend on the lens you're looking through.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 20/09/2019 00:01

Do you have any idea at all how much of a wanker you sound?

As opposed to someone insisting that cycling 1.5 miles isn't significantly faster than walking it? Pot. Kettle!

In case you're still not getting this: I. Walk. Places. Grin

S021 · 20/09/2019 06:53

endeavour to actually just get out of the way at all times. I frequently stop and just get off the road to keep from annoying drivers.

This ^^ Confrontayshunme is where you’re going wrong. You’re confirming many motorists opinion that you shouldn’t be there when you have every right to be.

easyandy101 · 20/09/2019 10:20

Didn't the op explain on the first page that she doesn't have the time to walk?

Baguetteaboutit · 20/09/2019 10:23

You couldn't let a small thing like that get in the way of capturing a thread to make it all about you though, right?

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 20/09/2019 11:33

For me the issue remains that on MN you simply cannot discuss poor behaviour by a cyclist without certain posters tying themselves in knots to excuse the behaviour whilst throwing in a chorus of “oh but cars do it worse”.

Oh dear Jaques, you just can't help yourself can you? This isn't a thread about poor behaviour of cyclists, but you've still tried to turn it into one. Tad hypocritical don't you think?

AntiStuff · 20/09/2019 12:00

I cycle on the road whilst my dd (5) stays on the pavement. If I'm on the road and need to cycle a bit faster to let a car past, I pull in at the next most convenient spot to allow dd to catch up.

Occasionally I join her on the pavement, and 99% of pedestrians are very understanding. We aren't speeding towards them or up behind them, we aren't out of control, and my dd already knows full well that on pavements, people walking always have priority and you always say thank you to anyone who lets you pass. If it's a busy pavement I get off and push. This is in London, for the school run mostly.

MrsBethel · 20/09/2019 12:25

"Why do you think it's OK for cyclists to break that law just because, in practice, they can generally get away with it?"

I can't speak for the other poster, but the reason I think it's okay for considerate cyclists with kids to cycle on the pavement is because:
A) If they are considerate then no pedestrians will be in any way inconvenienced or harmed.
B) Fewer young children will be killed by cars/lorries.

So, in the 'pros' column we have fewer children dying; in the 'cons' column we have absolutely nothing.

Confrontayshunme · 20/09/2019 15:04

Well, oddly I have another update. My friend who cycles to the same school with her two kids offered to show me her route home, which she has been doing since the cycle lane shut. It is slightly further, but less busy as the only on-road part is a one way street.

As we were going down a completely empty, 20mph one way street with 3 kids in neon jerkins nearest the parked cars and two adults in a protective stance, a car zooms down at about 40, hits my arm with his wing mirror and has to slam on his brakes to keep from hitting my friend and her child. Then, he had the nerve to shout at her and tell her we were taking up the whole f-cking road and needed to get off it. He then had to stop at a roundabout 10 metres later.

I feel more sure than ever that I need to cycle assertively two abreast with her visible to protect my DD as there are clearly people everywhere who would do her harm to get somewhere 10 seconds faster.

I appreciate all the views and am sorry some of it has devolved into us vs. them. Most cyclists also drive and reducing it to that makes the whole situation worse.

OP posts:
Aridane · 20/09/2019 15:23

OP - you are not safe on the roads and need to keep off them for your own safety

Aridane · 20/09/2019 15:24

Sorry - were you cycling several abreast?!?

easyandy101 · 20/09/2019 15:25

OP - you are not safe on the roads and need to keep off them for your own safety

Where do you get that from?

Aridane · 20/09/2019 15:27

Her posts!!

Booboostwo · 20/09/2019 15:30

Please consider getting a hat cam. This is exactly the sort of incident that could have been reported to the police with video evidence.

easyandy101 · 20/09/2019 15:55

Her posts!!

Grin

tbf I think I'm pretty good on a bike but I don't commute daily by bike anymore for the same reasons

Getting ploughed into at 40mph made me realise I could be as good a rider as I liked but you can't do anything about other people

easyandy101 · 20/09/2019 15:55

Still ride daily for fun or exercise though but don't put in commuting miles

oldwhyno · 20/09/2019 16:06

#2 only for me.

QualCheckBot · 20/09/2019 16:07

I'm so sorry for the driving behaviour you are experiencing OP.

I'm both a car driver and cyclist and I despair at how aggressive people in Britain seem to be when behind the wheel of a car. Even my DH is at it, I have to constantly tell him not to aggressively tailgate.

I hate this culture of driving everywhere, increasing obesity and car fumes and anti-cycling venom so unbearable that I'm planning to leave the UK for another European country. I really enjoy going out for a quiet, reasonably fast, cycle on my bike to keep fit and get some fresh air, and increasingly doing something like that here is fraught with danger and general unpleasantness.

OTOH I don't enjoy driving everywhere, stuffing my face full of MacDonalds and throwing the wrappers out of the window or developing early onset lifestyle related diabetes, which is what this country increasingly seems to cater for.

QualCheckBot · 20/09/2019 16:08

And a hat-cam and draping yourself in hiz-viz and flashing lights (In daylight, wouldn't cycle at nighttime in Britain) is a necessity here.

onioncrumble · 20/09/2019 16:12

Is there a bus or car pool? Proving an eco point shouldn't put children at risk, if the road works prohibit safe cycling, maybe let this go and compensate elsewhere

Baguetteaboutit · 20/09/2019 16:59

How is a head cam of any use? So that op can film being run over by some idiot in a car? Yes, it might help with accountability after the fact but it won't mend bones.

Just ride on the pavement and practice your Hmm face for the drama queens.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 20/09/2019 16:59

And a hat-cam and draping yourself in hiz-viz and flashing lights (In daylight, wouldn't cycle at nighttime in Britain) is a necessity here.

I'm pretty sure that it makes no difference what you're wearing, certainly not in the day. Most cars aren't hivis after all... The problem is not how visible you are when riding a bike but whether people actually bother to look. But a headcam can be very useful.

Swipe left for the next trending thread