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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Boys and girls sharing tents at scouts?

57 replies

MadameGazelleIsMyHomegirl · 15/09/2019 12:10

Dd is at scout camp. As I was leaving I had a brief chat with 2 of the leaders. One said ‘they can choose who they share a tent with, as long as they’re happy. I’m ok with mixed ages, mixed genders, whatever.’ I immediately said that I hoped not, and that I was not comfortable with the idea of dd (10) sharing a tent with boys. I’m now thinking of putting this in writing as the more I think about it, the more it makes my hair stand on end. AIBU?

OP posts:
CottonSock · 15/09/2019 12:50

I wouldn't be comfortable with it, which is why I send my dd to guides. Just saying

SarahTancredi · 15/09/2019 12:59

I wouldn't be comfortable with it, which is why I send my dd to guides. Just saying

cotton

Please do not be under the illusion guides is a single sex organisation. It isnt. Leaders who raised questions about safe guarding and mixed sex sleeping and showering have been expelled from the organisation. Parents will not be informed if leaders or the children are not biological girls and sharing sleeping quarters.

I am.not joking here

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/09/2019 13:05

No YANBU my dd isn’t in scouts / guides but she would not be ok to share with boys.

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/09/2019 13:06

@CottonSock
I agree with Sarah. Transgirls are allowed to share with biological girls at guides.

transformandriseup · 15/09/2019 13:06

Our Scout group would not allow this. Boys and girls have to be separate. In the case of just one girl, they need to sleep in their own tent or if the tent has separate compartments they can share with a leader. Also, if a girl identifies as a boy they also have the option of their own tent or sharing with their own sex.

Sweetooth92 · 15/09/2019 13:12

So many wrong statements on this post-as a leader in TSA UK.
Mixed sleeping is allowed-IF discusses with parents beforehand and it’s the most appropriate option.
For example, if all parents are happy and there is one female beaver attending, of course it makes sense for them to be in one tent if all are happy, rather than alone.
Separate changing areas must be arranged, and sleeping in with other age groups/ ie a beaver with a scout/explorer or leaders is absolutely not allowed. For those suggesting this it most definitely goes against POR and safeguarding would not approve at all.
Some situations are more suited to mixed sleeping than others. Annually we have a winter camp and it’s based in a hall. All the kids sleep in the same room without issue, and change into pjs etc separately in the toilets rather than infront of one another.

Going in claiming it’s not allowed is incorrect. However you should have been informed/provided consent.

Stressedout1980 · 15/09/2019 13:17

My child was sexually assaulted in a shared dorm at scouts. It was covered up until my child disclosed 6 months later. Never again

helpfulperson · 15/09/2019 13:42

Sweettooth92 is absolutely correct and all the information about it is available on the Scout Association website. If this is an issue that concerns you you should make sure you do proper research before signing up your child.

Mixed sex sleeping is very common in most European scout associations. It really is mostly the british who get wound up about this segregation of the sexes.

The one absolute no no is adults sharing sleeping accommodation so actually the female beaver sharing with a leader isn't allowed.

Facilities for changing, showering etc separately need to be in place.

In all situations eg school, trips, sleepovers etc, if boys and girls are going to get up to anything there will be so many more opportunities available to them other than in a room with half a dozen others.

SuitedandBooted · 15/09/2019 13:53

Cottonsock
I wouldn't be comfortable with it, which is why I send my dd to guides. Just saying

You might want to have a rethink......

Article Here
Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.
Watts, the leader of a Rainbows unit for girls aged 5 to 7 in Ealing, west London, said: “I am very upset and I am also really angry. We had some serious concerns about a policy that ignored basic safeguarding principles.”

Watts was told she was being removed because she was “not willing to follow Girlguiding’s equality and diversity policy in so far as it provides for transgender inclusion”. She was also accused of calling a fellow volunteer a “nightmare” on a private Facebook group visible to 20 people.

Since last year the Guides have allowed male-bodied trans adults who self-identify as women to be Guide leaders and trans children who self-identify as girls to be members. On trips the children can share lavatories, showers and sleeping accommodation. The policy says parents should not be told if their daughter’s leader, or a child, is transgender.

Watts said: “The policy puts all leaders in a really difficult position. It contradicts other inclusion policies — for certain faith communities for instance — and it completely contradicts existing policies around informed parental consent.”

A parent from Watts’ unit, said she was shocked at the decision: “Helen is amazing. My daughter loves her — she is so professional and she makes the parents and the children feel so welcome. It’s a real shame what has happened.”

Another expelled leader said: “I was told my membership was revoked, I had to shut my unit down and I was not allowed to talk to the girls or their parents. They said I was refusing to follow Girlguiding procedures. I told them I would follow any procedure unless it conflicted with the safety of a girl in my care.”

She was also accused of being disrespectful on social media, but said Girlguiding had not given her any examples.
Girlguiding said: “Two individuals were found to have breached our volunteer code of conduct and social media policy and sanctions have been applied accordingly” and added that the expulsions were “not based on the individuals’ personal views”.

Boys and girls sharing tents at scouts?
Rosti1981 · 15/09/2019 14:25

DD 8 has just spent a weekend sharing with boys. In the past she's been with girls (including older ones, when she's been a beaver and others cubs). This year just in with the boys because no other girls were on camp. I'm fine with that at 8, with other 8 year olds. Would prefer it to her being on her own or in with leaders. At 10 I might feel differently, so I think it's probably a matter of looking at it on a case by case basis.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 15/09/2019 14:33

So they’d a 14 year old boyfriend and girlfriend share a tent? As they would both be very happy with that.

How lovely - they’d be able to call the resulting offspring “Scout” - I reckon it works for a boy or a girl.....

Watfrordmummy · 15/09/2019 14:38

This is the outcome of girls joining a boy's group! If you don't like it she can join guides.

Biscuit
15thOctober2019 · 15/09/2019 14:39

So they’d a 14 year old boyfriend and girlfriend share a tent? As they would both be very happy with that.

How lovely - they’d be able to call the resulting offspring “Scout” - I reckon it works for a boy or a girl.....

In a tent with 6 the people?

How sad that you think 2 14 year olds can't share a tent without having sex- says more about you than most 14 year olds.

I mixed camped all the time as a teenager up to late teens. We went out most weekend as mixed groups and used to pitch tents and sleep or bivvy- never a problem.

SarahTancredi · 15/09/2019 14:41

The outcome of girls not joining this boys group would have been that it didnt exist at all.

Had the men offered their services more and boys attended more it wouldnt have happened in the first place.

This is on men

GrimDamnFanjo · 15/09/2019 14:42

@SarahTancredi quite right!

Dorsetcamping · 15/09/2019 14:43

Christ this has made me think! DS 14 is a Scout in a mixed group and often away on camps. Never even thought to ask about sleeping arrangements Confused

Fairenuff · 15/09/2019 14:44

Scouts and guides are moving towards a 'genderfree' system anyway.

MrsFionaCharming · 15/09/2019 14:54

By 14 they’re moving away from the standing-camp in a 6 man tent type thing they did at Beavers. Many Explorers bring their own smaller tents, or are provided with 2-3 man hiking tents for camps.

I know of multiple teenagers who’ve had sex at Scout camp, and 2 instances of sexual assault at one camp last summer when mixed tents were allowed.

Notmyideamovingon · 15/09/2019 14:55

Mixed tents on camp very common here parents can request otherwise.

BikeRunSki · 15/09/2019 14:57

It is allowed, but in practice I’ve only known it happen once (i’m a Cub leader), where the 2b and 1g were 8 years old and life long best friends, and their parents asked if they could. We asked them so make the request by email so we had in it writing.

MadameGazelleIsMyHomegirl · 15/09/2019 17:27

I spoke to the leader when I collected dd and expressed my concerns. The scouts on this camp were in 2 and 3 man tents, and apparently several of the older scouts shared mixed tents. Dd was in with 2 girls her age. The leaders were not camping anywhere near the scouts (other side of a large field, and behind a barn) so I think it would have been impossible for them to supervise what was going on in any of the tents let alone the mixed sex 2 or 3 man tents!
He took my points, and said he would talk to the other leaders. I pointed out that I felt it wouldn’t help dd (or any other girls) to say no to peer pressure If tent sharing was sanctioned by all the adult leaders. He said he ‘was sure’ that all the mixed sex groups weren’t up to anything and were just friends. I pointed out that when I was 13/14/15 I was a studious child but the adults around me (parents and teachers) had no idea my friends and I drank copious amounts of neat vodka whenever we got the opportunity. Anyway, I’ll wait and see what they say once they’ve had their meeting. I think he totally took my points about safeguarding etc

OP posts:
Dorsetcamping · 15/09/2019 17:32

Yes I also think this is def a safe guarding issue and will ask DS's Scout leaders what their view is.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/09/2019 17:37

When I was 14 I'd have been up to all sorts of I'd been allowed to share tents with boys if I'd fancied them and totally freaked out if I'd found them intimidating. It's a daft policy for kids in their early teens.

helpfulperson · 15/09/2019 17:40

It's not what the Scout Leaders view is - it's what the Scout Association Policy (which is guided by a whole team of professional safeguarding advisers) is. If you are not happy don't let your child go.

YouJustDoYou · 15/09/2019 17:47

Remembering what boys were like, even that young, fuck no would I have my girls in with boys.