How can I help my dd re friendships

[Losingtheplot01]

Ok.
Organised a birthday party for my daughter and her friends incl her 3 best friends
She is in senior school with one of them, I’ll call her 1st girl and 2 of them went to different schools and for ease I’ll call them 2nd and 3rd. The numbers are purely in reference to the order I’m mentioning them.
So as well as a party it was a sort of reunion as dd hadn’t seen 2nd and 3rd during the hols but had seen 1st a bit more because both our families were around more.

The girl she is still at school (1st girl) with is lovely when they are alone but when the other two are there, there is a very obvious pecking order. My dd feels this and tries to just get on and pretend it’s ok but every time it happens she is hurt. This happens often so in a group of 4 she’s often on the edge.
For example, I changed the timing to ensure that the 3rd one, could come and when she arrived the 1st one latched onto her and kept saying things like I want to be with you and the 2nd girl and basically no mention of my dd. I know she was excited to see them as they hadn’t over the hols but My dd was also super excited to see the 2nd and 3rd ones.
The 3rd girl then Followed suit and kept saying things like I want to sit you (1st girl) here, pointing to her left side and you (2nd girl) pointing to her right side.
I then asked what about dd and she just looked a bit sheepish? I said if you say that when there’s 4 of you how do you think the 4th one will feel? She said she didn’t mean it that way.
We had organised an activity and they had to pair up. 1st and 3rd girls basically said they wanted to be together with 2nd girl. There were some other girls at this too so dd made a :( face and agreed to be with them.
When she went with the other group I asked the girls as I’ve known them a while, to please try and include her as she does get hurt by it and as it’s her birthday it would be nice if they included her.
The 2nd one is the most relaxed and equal with everyone so she said don’t worry we will. She makes sure my daughter isn’t excluded but is sometimes swept up by the other two.
My daughter adores these girls but I sometimes wish she’d just stop accepting being treated this way.

My oh said I shouldn’t have said anything and that we need to let dd work things out but I was getting quite upset watching her be pushed out of the group and it came out.

I think I was upset as I see it time and time again.
DD is friendly with everyone and we’ll liked and when she met the 2nd girl they clicked. 2nd girl gets on with lots of people so dd isn’t demanding of her time but they both then made friends with 1st and 3rd girl and have been close for a few years.

I don’t know how to help my dd. This sort of thing really has chipped away at her confidence but I don’t know if I’m over reacting or being unreasonable. I experienced the same at school and still do now so find the
Whole friendship thing tricky to navigate.
My dd suffers with anxiety but does try and get on with things but I wish she would just say no that this isn’t acceptable. And that she deserves better.

I know I shouldn’t out my issues on my dd but because I have experienced the same i find it hard to not.

I hope I don’t sound unhinged or too mad. I really am struggling with this and feel like I accepted this for far too long in my youth and even as an adult and have mental health issues and depression and a very deep rooted lack of self worth/esteem and think this sort of thing played a big part in that and I would dearly love to avoid my dd following in my footsteps

I hope this makes sense. I just want to help my dd be happy and confident and to not accept being anyone’s back up friend. Or should I just leave her alone to deal with things herself? I should add this has been going on for a while and she is 12

Thank you in advance

Sparepant ( love the name ). That’s why Ian posted here because I k ow I possibly am projecting and I wanted to gauge whether I’m unhinged.

I don’t want to mollycoddle my dd but also don’t want her to go through what I did as it really has had a very King term effect on me.

But you’re right I mustn’t make it into a big thing but I also want dd to know that what they are doing isn’t kind or right and that she doesn’t have to accept that all the time.

She is a peacemaker and will compromise herself to make sure she isn’t upsetting anyone. But I’m doing so it’s sending a message to the others that it’s ok to treat her like that and that she’ll always be there as they’re backup friend when they have no other choice.

It’s really tricky

Oops. I meant to say it’s really tricky but thank you for your reply. I need to be mindful to not project. X

Sooner, what does gently encouraging look like? My dd gets defensive if I say anything and thinks I’m trying to break her friendships up so I find it really hard.

Really appreciate all your replies. Thank you

Thank you Sally.

That is a good idea. I have wondered about clubs away from school so will Def look into this.

Thank you for replying. Sometimes i miss the wood for the trees as I’m too busy worrying so the suggestion is very welcome. x

Sooner, you don’t sound jaded... you sound lovely and experienced and I appreciate you taking the time to help mex

I think I’ve replied to everyone. Sorry if I missed anyone but I have read all your replies and am so grateful.

Thank you also for being so supportive... I was a bit scared to post but it felt cathartic to get it out of my head and down in writing. So thank you for helping me help my dd

Mine are younger so I've yet to deal with these sorts of things. However when I was growing up I was always the underdog, frequently frozen out of friendship groups. I always think though (and I may be wrong, but it works for me) that the people who had a tough time in school with friends etc grow up to be more rounded, more considerate, more interesting people. I don't have a close friend who wasn't also bullied or last in pecking order, because for me I just don't understand people who have just sailed through life and played those games well! There is not much depth to these people. Sorry but that's what I think. Maybe you can take comfort from this too.

Thanks Molly.

Sorry to hear you experiences the same. I’d be fine I think if my dd didn’t accept it but she does so hoping she’ll realise what her boundaries are and that when she does she is able to say it’s not on.

At what point this self belief and reliance kicks in, I don’t know.

She knows it’s wrong as she wouldn’t treat anyone that way but the fact she takes it is the I need to help her with.

I hope she gets there

Thank you again x

I don't know the answer OP.
I'll be watching with interest going through similar with my DD.
I know my nieces had issues with friendships and finding their place around that age.
It is sad to see your DC left out, DD breaks my heart but I don't show it.

Sorry to hear your dd is going through similar.

Does your dd talk about it? Mine is aware but doesn’t want to talk about it as it’s tricky for her to have to admit I guess.

I just want her to start to believe in herself and that she deserves better.

I guess she could go thru life accepting it like I did but it does hurt and it does chip away at your sense of self and that’s the thing I’d like to make sure she doesn’t do.

Fingers crossed for your dd.

After reading some replies I realise we are lucky really that at school, where this could become all consuming, she is mostly away from this dynamic which is a relief.

Also that she does still accept it and that it’s ok to not.
Thank you again x

"Sooner, what does gently encouraging look like? My dd gets defensive if I say anything and thinks I’m trying to break her friendships up so I find it really hard."

Yes it's very difficult, because also if you mention it you're pointing out that they are treating her badly which obviously is hard for a dc to hear. I think maybe it's easier to talk in generalities about what friendship means in the course of a discussion that isn't about dd's own situation. Or discuss a situation that you were in once when X treated you badly and after a while you decided to ditch them - and hope the message gets through!

I think that if dd expresses her unhappiness to you about their behaviour, that is the time to say you don't think they're that kind, and maybe it's time to back off a bit, while remaining civil, and focus on nicer friends.

"As they left 1st girl said to 2nd ok so I’ll see you in a couple of weeks. My dd was there so she asked ooh but why 2 weeks and 2nd girl said bec she and 2nd girl are in different schools. My dd is also Ina. Different achool but it looked like she wanted to cry when the penny dropped." They all have phones so she could have privately arranged that instead of yet again being excluding."

Ah yes, friendship parading and making arrangements in front of other people can be very tiresome for the others. Fulfils a variety of functions for those doing it - it advertises to others that you are a 'marketable' person, with friends; and is also excluding, which in a perverse way supports the other friendships. This may be all done unconsciously of course - the dc just thinks it's convenient to make the arrangement there and then, in front of other people!

I think that excluding is quite an 'instinctive' thing to preserve your place in a group, to do with the self-preservation impulse. That is a bit depressing I know! The important thing is to help dd ensure that she isn't the one performing the excludee function - and that may take quite a while to do.

It can also be a reasonable tactic to go along with it for a while if you don't have any other friendships at that time - as long as you're working on making some replacements! This all sounds very calculating I know, but it's really more a question of working out what's going on.
Hope your dd is doing ok - the fact that she does have other friends is very positive!

Hello again Sooner. You’re such a star for helping me and I really do appreciate your replies.
I understand what you mean about gentler encouraging.

It’s all very tedious. My dd doesn’t fonitbto others and I didn’t so it’s a bit hard to know how to deal with it.

The mum of the 2nd girl called me to sanher daughter had found the dynamic quite tricky and that she wanted to reassure me that she wasn’t involved and that she could have been more assertive but it was a bit tricky. She also said to her mum that my dd is her best friend as they are both very similar and are comfortable together whether they are being quiet or playing with others. Her mum said she should make sure my dd knows that and she replied that she does. I know my dd is close to her but the other two were a disappointment.
My son who is a couple
Of years younger said yesterday that that’s has happened before and my dd agreed so it seems she can see it and understands that this isn’t acceptable.
That’s all I wanted I guess. For her to know it’s ok to not accept that sort of behaviour.

Dd had another friend who she was close with but who became more of a yo-yo with her. She would only play with or notice her when she didn’t have anyone else so my dd in the last few months has distanced herself so is civil and friendly but isn’t happy with the dynamic.

So I am in a way pleased to report that she seems to be handling this sort of stuff better than I did as a young person.

I will do as you suggest and talk about what is acceptable to Her.

It is a shame but i think it’s also part of life and I’ve experienced that sort of behaviour as an adult so I’m hoping that even though it isn’t easy, that’s she’ll maybe learn to truly believe in herself and not blame herself and to understand that when people blow hot and cold it’s not because of anything she’s done.

I also hope she finds a few more friends who are solid and even like the 2nd girl and that their friendship also is more solid after this.

Dd is wary of the other two because I think. Ow that’s she has allowed herself to accept that it did happen, she realises that it’s not the first tIme so I suspect she’ll drift from the 1st one who she is at school with but will remain friendly but aware.

Not sure about the 3rd girl but thankfully she is at another school so that takes the pressure off massively

Thanks again for your help and hope what I’ve said makes sense

And I really am grateful for everyone’s help and I wish all the children going through similar lots of love and luck Xx

And you’re right, She has made new friends and that is a positive.

I think the fact that she’s at senior school and out of the old junior school friendship dynamics and the summer holiday break from
It has probably helped her deal with this much better than I thought.

I’m so pleased I posted tho as it’s helped me understand that it’s not just a thing that happened to me or just my dd but is quite common but more importantly that many people come out the other side and do go on to have good friendships and that the same dynamics aren’t always present. Phew!

When I posted I was VERY worried that it might be a case of history repeating itself. However this thread has helped me feel ok about what happened to me and also fills me hope for the future for my dd which is so much better than the worry I felt when I posted this on here.
Thank you again xx

Your dd sounds like a sweetheart. Suggest to her that she plan a sleepover with 2nd girl in the coming weeks and encourage your dd to keep up that bond one to one. Sounds like they’re on the same wavelength and it’s a friendship worth investing in. The other two she should keep at arms length and continue to widen her circle of friends at school.

Thank you cheeseandpineapple. I think that’s great advice and I think I’ll also try and do more one to one play dates with the 2nd girl. She does seem like a solid friend

For anyone else who is experiencing similar... o found this incredibly helpful podcast by someone called Truly Madly Smiley and the podcast is aimed at children.

We listened to one about friendships and it helped my dd realise that a good friendship is about balance as it talks about it being like a see saw. It helped me too. There is another one about fake friends that well Listen to too. Her style is excellent for kids and both mine enjoyed listening to her talk about how it made her feel in similar situations.
I think if dd hears this from others then it helps
More as it’s not me rocking the boat.
I can link but not sure I’m allowed to but highly recommend it. Also One about worries which was good. Wish I’d had access to stuff when I was growing up.

Xx

Something from one of your posts stood out for me, you said something like “...I wonder when children realise they need to set boundaries” with regards to friendships.

If left to their own devices, at about 30! After lot of hard knocks. Much better to teach them boundaries by example and coaching as kids.

Part of it is getting your DD to understand what is, and is not, ok in her world. So it’s not ok for friends to leave you out of an activity on your birthday, in any circumstances! And she should feel free to say assertively, “it’s really unkind you three have left me out on my birthday, when I’ve invited you”. It’s different to screaming “you’re all bitches!!” and causing a scene, and much more likely to flag up to nice kids like girl 2 that they are making a bad choice.

There’s also a case of “the squeaky hinge getting the oil”. By speaking up it’s much more likely the girls will begin to consider your DD’s feelings. By saying ‘I don’t mind’ and putting up with it she’s effectively giving them permission to behave like this.

Thanks SayWhatNowYall
I’m the other side of 50 and am only recently ok with not being ok with that sort of treatment myself so 30 would have been amazing to have that realisation but it’s definitely a case of better late than never
I agree about 1 to 1 plays dates with the 2nd girl.
The 1st girl at school needed dd’s help today so spoke to her and my dd helped her. She also came and sat with my dd at lunch when dd was sat with her 3 other friends so I think my dd is doing well at being kind and civil but the rose tinted glasses have slipped and she isn’t trying so hard with her now.

They’re all good kids I think so hopefully the 1st one knows she was a bit mean. I think the 3rd one is possibly struggling at her new school and hasn’t made many friends and possibly was a bit miffed that my dd has and that their friendship group dynamic is altered and she was trying to get it back. I got the feeling she was annoyed at dd but Who knows? Or maybe, as ds pointed out she has just always like that, but for whatever reason it’s more prominent. i can go a bit mad thinking about stuff but at the moment I feel a bit sorry for her that she felt the need to be like that.

I think arms length for a while is a good thing. But as much as I hated seeing it I don’t want to dictate (just yet) who she does or doesn’t want to see.

I have suggested what you said she could say if she decides that she still wants to be in group situations together again and if it happens again. I have also said that friends can make mistakes so it’s okay to move on from this but that maybe after a couple of times if the same thing keeps happening to maybe asses and start seeing it for what it is. I’ve said that’s true for anyone in life and not just at school.

The speaking up and asking questions of teachers or telling people how you feel has come up a lot before as she never wanted to in junior school but she seems to have started senior school knowing that she has to and actually has.

So as I said I think she’s better at dealing with this that I was at her age or even now.

I think she’s also impressed with the chats we’ve had and has opened up and isn’t defensive but matter of fact so I owe all of you on here who have replied a massive hug. I am really not good at this and it feels Like you’ve all helped me help my dd but it’s also helped us in how we communicate and listen to each other.

How old are the girls?

I’m also listening to an audible book at the moment called ‘Quiet, the power of the introvert in a world that can’t stop talking’ and that together with your advice is amazing.

I spent most of my life beating myself up over various things and that’s why I’m a bit low on the self esteem thing and it’s been such a colossal waste of energy. I felt ugly and unworthy for years because I had ‘friendships ‘ like these ones alway
So my panic and sadness were from that place.

I recently had to get my passport renewed and looked at the old Photo and thought wow I looked alright but vividly remember feeling disgusted at the time.

I’m telling you all this as the this thing made me panic and the thing id dearly love to avoid for my kids is the same self loathing. I think mine came from years and years of people Treating me as the z option and that I accepted it with gratitude when it happened and blamed myself the rest of the time when I wasn’t included which was 99% of the time. I realise now I did it to myself but I think since I posted I feel much better equipped to help her with this when it happens again.
My dd is quiet and thoughtful and a lot like I was. She is funny and has fun with her friends but is equally happy just reading or watching tv or doing a puzzle . She can be a bit mean to her brother sometimes but they mostly get along very well.
I'm taking away a massive silver lining from all of this, so thank you all so much. There have to be lessons in tricky things that happen and mine is I have learned how to help her a bit to avoid what I did to myself for literally decades
Xxx

Hi littleduckegg
My dd was 12 and the others are 11. The 2nd girl is the youngest of the group but is the wisest

So sorry for all my long posts.

I said she’s dealt with things at school and I didn’t mean regarding the friendships thing. I mean talking to teachers when she needs help or just generally seems more comfortable at the school. She almost the opposite of what she was like at junior school on that regard.