That replying to work emails on the train IS working?

[managedmis]

Jury seems to be out on this one at work so thought I'd ask on her.

I commute 2 hours per day to get to work, an hour there and back. I have my work email on my phone and reply /send emails when I'm on the train. Note that my role is admin based, so always loads of emails to respond to etc.

I consider that this is work.

What do you think?

It depends on the quality of the work you are able to do while on your commute. Replying to a few emails using your work phone is not work. However I have colleagues who commute in from Poole and Southampton to London who can audioconference into meetings and work on their laptops and they, quite rightly, can count their commutes as part of their working days

I think the bottom line here is whether you choose to do this work off your own back, or whether your company expects it.

If your choosing to complete this work yourself and the company hasn’t put any pressure/requests on you to do so, then you can’t really go to your boss asking for more cash etc. Although you could use it as evidence to prove your dedication to the role if you wanted a pay rise or promotion in future.

If your company has given you an expectation or requested that they want you to conduct this admin outside of work hours, then I guess you may have a case for requesting paid overtime of time off in lieu if your company offers/is prepared to offer either of those things.

In my workplace, dealing with emails on your commute is pretty normal, it makes me have time in the office for people stuff, meeting etc however my boss is very much of the output not hours mindset so as long as you meet your targets/workload they do not care if you are working in the office on the train or at home so long as you get it done

I'm a lawyer and we do billable hours so put it this way: the partners would be wanting me to bill that time so for me yes it would equal work.

However as various PP have said you have to commute 2 hours anyway. You can use that time to read a book or to keep on top of email admin.

As a boss I'd appreciate the latter - it would show me you're not someone who clocks off at 5pm and pisses off even at year end (insert industry equivalent example) but I wouldn't be telling you 'right OP your new working hours are 10 - 4pm in office + 2 hrs travel. No way.

I have to work 40 hours per week : I consider that 5 hours of these take place on the train

oP - you are one hell of a CF !

From your update: if I were your boss and you tried this on with me I’d tell you ‘please relax during your commute and work your 40 hours in the office’.

Don’t poke the bear, your manager must know you do light tasks during your commute and I bet you are allowed time off for the GP and to slip in/out early when there are train problems and so on because they know you’re diligent.

If you asked for your commute to count as contracted hours I’d turn on you pretty quickly. School nativity play? No problem but make up the hours. Train strike? Sorry to hear it please take annual leave.

I travel to various sites with work. Travelling to "base" is counted as daily commute and not paid - therefore I don't work. Travel "offsite" is paid therefore I work.

I'm in admin. 90% email based. If I tried to work during my normal commute and claim it as work time I'd get into serious problems with my boss. It's simply not as productive as being at work.

So IMO yes it is working, no it shouldn't mean you are paid for your time travelling to work.

I have to work 40 hours per week : I consider that 5 hours of these take place on the train

Replying to emails during your commute does not contribute to your working hours, and if your manager has actually agreed to that they can expect uproar from other members of staff who will try and do the same thing.

Most of us commute OP, we don't expect to have this time deducted from our working days because you can't always have your cake and eat it. I think somebody needs a reality check.

I think this thread highlights that the UK still has a really strong culture of presenteeism where it's more important to be seen to be doing work than actually doing work.

OP has made it clear that a large proportion of her workload can be completed away from the office. We are lucky we live in an era where technology can often facilitate us to work effectively from different locations including the train. Why is OP working on the train automatically so different than somebody working from home? If her output is of the appropriate quantity and quality then what does it matter? I think we need to get away from this mindset that bums on seats in offices is an indicator of productivity. Many studies have shown that flexible working actually improves productivity and has lots of other benefits for the employer and employee. Dismissing alternative ways of working without properly looking into how effective or efficient they are seems to run counter to promoting real flexibility.

It seems to me that work is an odd concept given that some people do it at a computer and others on a tractor. I think that work is the part you get paid to do which you would not do without being paid.

When I was teaching and an afternoon went really well I sometimes thought, I’d have paid them to let me have that lovely class really enjoying the Shakespeare or whatever. But the interaction with admin, data, OFSTED, management, crap initiatives, teenage heads of department; they were the horrors I was being paid to endure.

@Bumpitybumper I agree, to a point.

However, I think that what also needs to change is attitudes that working from home means you take the piss. I have worked for several companies that allow WFH or trialled it. Unfortunately, in all cases a large portion took the piss.

In my last job, people would work from home, and miss early teleconferences (by early I mean 8.30am and booked well in advance), didnt respond to emails or IM, werent online and generally made things harder. Loads admitted to having their laptop open but laying on the couch watching TV.

Seeing what I have seen, i can understand a lot of employers being reluctant to allow it. It also made WFH harder for those that actually did work, feeling like you had to prove every hour was accounted for.

So yeah, I think there needs to be a big culture change. Both employers and employees.

Fascinating how many people are prepared to work for free in their own time.

If the OP is doing 5 hours work out of the office then that is still working.

If she's not allowed to class those as work hours then I'd suggest she only answers emails when in the office.

Then she can spend her whole commute doing something more enjoyable like reading a book.

I work on the train. It is not part of my working hours.

While I may be constantly on email during my commute it isn’t as productive as sitting at my desk for the same duration of time. If someone was trying to count it as part of their 40 hour week I’d be most unimpressed.

@testing987654321 that exactly the point. The OP is choosing to work on the train.

If your employer is ok with you working outside their core hours and taking it back. That's fine.

If you choose to work outside those hours, despite knowing your employer expects you in the office for your working hours and the its your choice.

I choose to catch up at home, because to be honest, I love my work. I am well paid so dont mind. I like my co workers, I like to chat with them, make a brew, take a proper lunch. Part of my job is making sure other departments run well so sit with them alot. Chat to them, not just about work. Get to know them so we have a good relationship and I can understand the real issues.

It's my choice. But then my employer knows I do this and is happy if I want to take a 2 hour lunch and meet dp for something to eat.

Doing a bit of work at weekends, makes my life overall better. I am also one of these people that if I have an idea for something, I want to set it up straight away. I don't want to wait until Monday.

I'm surprised people can work on trains. Surely there are issues of confidentiality to consider? I must admit I really dislike the growing trend of people appropriating public places as their personal work space, particularly for phone calls.

Fascinating how many people are prepared to work for free in their own time.
Some (usually salaried professional) jobs have a reasonable expectation of some work out of hours.
It's exactly the sort of point people make when teachers complain about unreasonable expectations when someone turns up and says "yeah but look at all these jobs that require reasonable extras".

Other jobs don't.

My former college got the train to/from school and on a quiet train she got her marking done. That's reasonable above the 32h school week. It wouldn't be reasonable if she wanted to argue she didn't need to teach as much because she spends 10hours a week on the train marking and planning and answering emails.

I used to work flexible hours. My commute to the main base wasn't in my working day. If got the train to another base then my working day started from the moment my work-required travel began.

Flexible hours works well when everyone is clear on the parameters and nobody takes the piss.

Someone who decides to answer emails on their commute and then wants to reduce their working day because they've tapped on their phone a bit on the train is usually the sign of someone being quite cheeky to be honest.

Yes it is work. But like most op it depends on the contact to say if YABU to argue it is.

I work in a flexible environment (I’m lucky!) if someone said one day ‘I have to leave early today but i’ll work on x presentation on the way home’ then no one would bat an eyelid - even if the reason to leave early was non-urgent.

If someone said ‘my commute is 2 hours a day so I will only be in the office for 3.5 hours a day it would not go down well. You wouldn’t have a chance of getting away with it.

*Like most pp

My work is confidential and I could not therefore work on my laptop on the train. I am somewhat shocked when I see what's on people's laptop screen on trains and planes

I work 9-5 in the office. I choose to check/answer work emails in evenings and on weekends, but do not log this on my time sheet - as it is my choice. It helps me to feel calmer and more in control so that I know what to prioritise in work. My colleague in the same role categorically refuses to check her emails outside work, which is absolutely fine. The bottom line is that it's a choice. My boss doesn't expect me to check my emails, but she know it works well for me.

My husband refuses POINT BLANK to answer emails outside of his work hours! He sees them pop up but swipes them away. If someone calls he answeres out of courtesy but will assess the “problem” and will more than likely tell them to “relax” and he’ll deal with it “tomorrow” “on Monday” etc it’s quite funny to listen to!!

Dh I mean...oops

Any work that is done is work - doesn't matter where or when! I am zero hours - mostly admin and I work on the sofa, in a cafe, in my study - in bed if I fancy it - I fill in my timesheet and get paid!
At dh's company the team mostly work in the office but again - it's all about input/output rather that time stamping or location - so if they are holiday and they work then (which is sometimes necessary) that is still working - they can take time off in lieu. Dh takes a very early train to work rather than driving so he can get a seat and work and spend less time in the office. We'll pay extra for one of the team to sit in first class when travelling to a client site so they can work. If my company did not recognise the work I did because it wasn't in the office - then I would only work in the office and probably start looking for a more flexible employer.

Aridane
Me too.
I'm amazed by it too. Same in cafes as well as phonecalls. Sometimes I've stopped and thought "I'm really not sure people should be able to see/overhear that". It surprises me how often people make any public place a place of work.

I am somewhat shocked when I see what's on people's laptop screen on trains and planes Dh's company supply privacy filters and they have to use them.