Aibu partners work shifts

[StinkyWizleteets]

I’m prepared to accept I am partly unreasonable here.

My partner works for the nhs in emergency theatres. His shifts are 3x 12.5 hour shifts a week with one in four weeks being 4x 12.5 hour shifts. We knew when he started his job these were the kinds of hours he’d be working (this is where I accept I am probably unreasonable complaining) he leaves the house at 6am and doesn’t get home until almost 9pm due to public transport issues.

The problem is that his shifts days change every week with no regular days on or off and his off duty is only published a maximum of two weeks before the start of the next month. This makes planning anything in my own or family life near impossible.

We have two kids and I’m starting a 9-530 dream job but shit wages. The biggest problem is childcare. Understandably no nursery or after school club is willing to be flexible with the days the kids are in at such short notice. They need fixed days/times and notice to change them. I can’t afford putting them in 5 days a week to accommodate his changing shifts when we know he’ll be off 3-4days a week. His hours are so out with the realm of available childcare that I am the only one available for pick up and drop off, restricting what I can do with my job.

I won’t even start on lack of social life because I can’t plan for events far in advance. We need his annual leave for school holiday coverage. We have no family available to help out (too old/ill/far away)

It makes no sense to me to have everyone changing their weekly work days every week and not to find out until just before the month begins. Even doing three months in advance would make more sense for planning life, social and medical events

I asked him to speak to whomever makes up the rota to request more regular days for working (even if every weekend) or more notice but he says I’m being unreasonable. I don’t think I am. No one else in his theatre has a young family.

AIBU?

That is how hospitals work and there is literally no chance of them changing it to suit him. If you can't make it work for your family, he'll need to look for a different job. Even in wards, rather than theatre, every week of shifts is likely to be completely different.

I think you are being unreasonable only in as much as this is normal for NHS jobs such as his one.

I was a staff nurse and we had exactly the same situation with off duty, plus we did 7 nights on one month and 4 nights on the next month..our off duty was issued 2 weeks in advance. You just had to accept it as part of the job but it was the.main reason why I left once I'd had our 2nd child - there was no way that we could organise childcare around my shifts.

No one else in his theatre has a young family.

So what? Are you saying that because you have made certain life choices regarding having children and taking a ‘dream job’ with a poor salary, your partner should have different work patterns and more regular shifts to everyone else? I’m afraid that’s not how it works. He doesn’t get special privileges. He works in a job that entails shift work and rotas and no, a hospital can’t and won’t change its rota system just because you don’t feel it works for your family. If it’s a problem he needs to look for another job.

I wonder how many people leave jobs like this because it is shit for families? Seems really counterproductive.
My mum was a nurse and she always had set days or three months notice of off duty.

Is there a reason the nhs works this way? Is there a benefit to having your shifts all over the place?

Is there a reason the nhs works this way?

Yes, because it's an incredibly complex and unpredictable system which is trying to run as efficiently as possible, and staffing is one of the biggest factors in making that work. I mean, probably it could change so that everyone had regular shift patterns and knew their time off well in advance, but we'd all need to be paying twice as much in tax.

When I worked in an nhs hospital, the basic premise was the same, and that's what you signed up to. However, those doing the off duties knew that they would lose brilliant staff if they didn't at least try to accommodate. We were able to make our preferences known and request a certain number of shifts/off duties each month. With the knowledge that our requests weren't guaranteed but they were mostly accommodated. We also swapped shifts amongst ourselves.

My DH works shifts and gets an annual roster at the beginning of each year giving us plenty of notice, so while the shifts change each week, we can plan in advance. Even then, we struggled with childcare as the varying shifts and random days off meant we couldn’t commit to particular days for nursery. I ended up giving up work until our youngest started school and then took a school hours job to work round his hours and school pickups. It’s frustrating and not very family friendly but it is to be expected and part of the job.

An annual roster or even two-three months at a time would be slightly better.

Saying that’s just how it is and accept it is bollocks. He was informed at interview they were changing to a set days rota after staff complained but it never happened. That people believe workers should just accept shit practices that do nothing for work life balance says a lot about society and who really holds the power.

The fact that my shit paid job is a dream job (pure luck) or that I have kids doesn’t mean I am not allowed to opine on employment practices that disadvantage entire sections of the population, particularly when I am one of many who are affected by it. I’m not expecting special privileges for him alone but there are thousands of staff with caring responsibilities who must struggle with this system and instead of trying to develop more family friendly practices they’re expected to shut up and put and and be thankful for having a job.

In a time when the NHS is about to seriously struggle more than ever for staff, to have conditions that are not conducive to family life excludes a lot of very qualified workers.

As I said at the start I’m aware I’m being unreasonable as we knew what the shifts would be like but that doesn’t mean the system in which nhs staff are expected to work is reasonable and that was what my question was about.

You are being unreasonable in a sense as you knew the situation when he took the job, but I would disagree that his situation is the the same as everyone in the NHS. Certainly me as a junior doc, many friends and family in nursing get more notice/regularity than that when required for childcare purposes/other responsibilities. I do not think he would be unreasonable to discuss with his line manager re possibility of some of pattern/regularity to his shifts, the worst that will happen is that they say no...?

OP I agree with you, I work for the police, we have a rolling rota and I could tell you my shift years in advance if I had to.

I work alongside NHS nurses and their rota system is bonkers. The staff all hate it, there's no pattern to the shifts and some poor sods get weeks and weeks of nights or all the weekends so they end up swapping shifts amongst themselves. It baffles me why they can't adopt a formal shift pattern.

Could your partner put in a flexible working request to have set days?

He can apply for a 'family friendly' agreement. They have to consider his proposal and give a reasonable reason if they decline. The nhs is hugely resourced by women, many of who have families so of course they consider childcare. I've never been in a work place that has outright refused a family friendly pattern and we always try to accommodate them in my team. Also I thought most places have e-roster now which definitely gives more than 2 week notice of off duty, can be a bit inflexible if you don't have a family agreement or set shifts though.

Yanbu. My partner is an NHS shift worker, and is supposed to get his rota a month in advance. He hardly ever does. And even when he does there will invariably be an email advising there has been a mistake a couple of hours after it is sent, with the promise of an updated version 'soon', which then takes at least another week to appear. It drove me crazy the first couple of years we were together, but I've gradually gotten used to it. Mostly because I was off sick for nearly a year and am now part-time so we get to see each other a reasonable amount. However, I will be full-time soon, also for the NHS do will no doubt back to having days on end where we barely see each other. It is frustrating, and in his dept is mostly down to the person doing the rota having far too much in her plate, but also due to being chronically short staffed.

That's just the nature of most NHS jobs sadly. I have responsibility for rosters, it's an absolute headache. Everyone gets 4 requests a month which I honour, after that it's service dependent. Our trust has a policy though that we have to have them approved 6 weeks in advance.
Having a young family, old family or no family is not relevant, everyone is treated equally. As @Hanraa1sayz he can apply for a family friendly or set pattern. This has to be considered, I've personally never seen it approved in an emergency setting.

Given that the NHS is really struggling with retention, surely improving the predictability of rosters would help.

I work in public transport. I could tell you what rest days I'll have in 2032. I could give you a rough idea of my shift times up to December.

Yabu, its The NHS, Emergency's do not just happen in office hours!

The issue isn't working unsociable hours. It's the fact that so many depts publish their rotas with very little notice. We can't plan anything for October as OH doesn't have his hours yet. So one of the many ways in which it affects us is that we can't buy tickets for gigs until close to the event, by which time they are often sold out. And obviously it affects people in much more important ways, such as what the OP mentioned wrt childcare arrangements.

Is there a system where staff can express preferences for days off/on? I am not in the UK but I am a nurse and I work shifts. We have a computer system where we can request our whole months roster in advance. Of course it doesn’t guarantee you those shifts but generally you get what you want because everyone has different preferences.

I forgot to say - If organised well with the option to preference working hours and reasonable notice of a new roster, shift work has the potential to be more convenient for parents than a Monday to Friday job.
I agree with you OP, it seems like the management of your partners rostering is a bit backwards and they are probably losing good staff as a result!

I mean, probably it could change so that everyone had regular shift patterns and knew their time off well in advance, but we'd all need to be paying twice as much in tax

I really don’t understand why regular shift patterns would have to cost more?

The system has to be flexible enough to adapt to external pressures. Some days you may need to run more lists than others, some days lists might have to be cancelled to accommodate emergencies and so extra lists have to be instigated at short notice to accommodate the cancelled patients. Some surgeons take leave and their lists aren't picked up, so it would not make sense to staff those theatres and have them sitting around doing nothing.

I work in theatres and I write the roster. And although I write them all 6 weeks in advance, the day to day changes often mean that I have to ask people to swap sessions at the last minute. That's without having to contend with staff sickness!

Regular shift patterns would allow for all theatres to be staffed in a predictable manner and accommodate emergencies, acute pressures, elective overruns - but at the cost of staffing for all eventualities, so some would sit empty but still costing money. Hence would need more funding. It's whether you staff for the minimum demand (cheap but very unpredictable), maximum demand (predictable but expensive) or some kind of middle ground (most NHS trusts I've ever worked in - both unpredictable and not cheap!)

I really don’t understand why regular shift patterns would have to cost more?

It's a really difficult point to grasp if you've never worked in an environment which has high footfall and no profitable turnover.

In most businesses, customers through the door = money. But in the NHS, customers through the door = losing money.

When you're working with a tight budget, i.e. limited staff numbers, and there is an expectation of allowing staff to request last minute leave, then the rota has to be left open to accomodate that.

Yanbu insofar as the the implication that childcare logistics and funding is your problem alone. MN is usually quite firm on advising women not to take the long term risk of staying in part time work to facilitate their mans career because when the shit hits the fan it really splatters for the woman if she’s not been paying into a pension and NI. Possibly it’s viewed differently because the NHS is the employer in question but that makes sod all difference to the practical impact of family unfriendly policies on your and your kids lives.
YABU if you expect it to change. But I’d be pressing him to find out what his plan is if you don’t think it’s sustainable. It’s your life too and if, god forbid, the relationship broke down due to the strain then what would he do about seeing his kids without you facilitating the childcare?

Nhs manager here. Our rota policy demands free shifts are out at least 8 weeks in advance. I think 2 weeks notice is really appalling rota management..

All not free

it could be done better for cheaper. it wouldn't cost the nhs more because there would be less need for overtime or contract cover even sick time would be reduced.
sorry all of canada's hospitals work on a scheduled rotation. based on labor laws.
take this up with the union.
BUT you should not be reliant on public transport and after a 12+hr shift should be home within 20 minutes.