To wonder why so many of UK mid range restaurants are poor value chains

[Dr1ftw00d]

Spent a few weeks in the US over the summer and noticed how easy it is to get individual, decently cooked, good quality food and portions often in long time restaurants.

Near where I live mid range equals a chain. Microwaved stuff with no individuality and often poorly cooked.

Why is this?

I hope you were tipping appropriately in the US, Dr1ftw00d. Tips represent a good part of the staff's pay and are taxed accordingly. You will have left a stench in your wake if you did that "Brit" thing of scuttling out without tipping or proudly leaving a quarter on the table.

Agree that not all chains are bad. And the value they represent in the mid-value range is because independents struggle to match offers/deals. High-end independents are ok whilst they are new and popular, but a struggling mid-priced establishment makes me dubious about some of the food as they can't afford waste. Of course no waste is good, but not when it involves keeping stuff for too long or, as I witnessed in one place near me, salvaging uneaten stuff off customers' plates

Yes 20%, why wouldn’t we?

Should we start a thread or some threads with localised UK recommendations? Where would be the best place to do that?

My top four right now in Leeds are Hana Matsuri (sushi- expensive but worth it), The Swine that Dines (prix fixe classic British, byob, does great vegetarian nights) Noodlesta (cheap and cheerful handmade noodles stir fried or in soup, short menu, cash only) and Owt in Kirkgate market (only a couple of tables, no alcohol, but does beautiful food and cakes based on what is fresh in the market- usually one meat and one vegan option).

They sound fab.

You were luckier than me in the US - admittedly I've only been to Las Vegas and Boston, but my experience was nothing like yours. I didn't expect much of Las Vegas but Boston was a huge disappointment. Everything was horribly greasy, sugary or salty. In desperation I went to an "English Pub" that someone recommended for their traditional home cooking. I ordered fish and chips. They brought me a plate of dry fish fingers and a bowl of crisps.

We had one good meal when we were there, in an Italian restaurant (that might have been a chain for all I know).

Portion sizes were always generous, but when I could barely eat the food that wasn't really a plus.

Anyway - I agree that there is a lack of good dining opportunities that aren't chains. I just didn't find it any better in America.

@HearMeSnore you went to the wrong places- I’m from Boston and they have some of the best seafood in the world plus,weirdly, great American-Italian food (much like British Indian food, it’s a separate cuisine from the Italian food you find in Italy but delicious and special in its own right). DM me if you ever go back and I’ll sort you out.

Dirty Water Dough was great in Boston. Cheap with a great lunch offer and loads of veggie options.

Mike’s Bakery is emperors new clothes though.

I agree with you in general but I disagree when it comes into Cote. Dh forced us into Cote in Covent Garden recently and I was pleasantly surprised at the quality and also the price.

When we eat out we generally go for Thai or pizza as I find the menus at places like Bills so uninspiring there is literally nothing on there that I want to eat. 15 years ago I could find always find something on a pub or a chain menu that I want to eat but now it's all so bland and over priced.

We have some nice independents where we live in the South East but they're not cheap. For the 4 of us we generally find that we pay around £120-£140 for a decent meal. Most of the time we stick to pizza and use Tesco vouchers to bring the cost down.

I’ve lived and travelled in the States, and would echo PP - it’s a huge country and you can’t make sweeping statements. The best steak I ever has was in Kansas and I had some fantastic Hungarian home cooked food in a back street Manhattan eatery. Every decent sized city has a good selection of indie restaurants. But outside those and tourist places, you’re going to struggle to get places to eat where it’s a pleasure as opposed to fuel and needing to eat. I’m thinking places like Mojave or Lone Pine in California, which are a couple of hours from LA.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun and an experience to eat at the local diner kind of place, like a pp mentioned where the only green vegetable is broccoli and it comes in a sauce. And everyone stops and looks at you when you enter but you wouldn’t want to have that as your only option for eating out.

Likewise, huge variation in the U.K. Vast swathes of Scotland with no chain in sight. Where I live (Yorkshire) we have a decent mixture of chains and Indies.

I also find in the UK once a flavour is in fashion it is everywhere.

Salted Caramel I’m looking at you. I’m long over it. Yes a few years ago a place of high quality salted caramel choc was ok. I don’t want salted caramel cheesecake, ice cream, crumble etc..... Its everywhere, sickly and uninspiring.

Elision Everyone I spoke to recommended the seafood but as I'm allergic to shellfish I had to be careful. We went to a place at Faneuil Hall for lunch where everyone raved about the clam chowder - which I couldn't eat but I thought if it was that good there must be other options that would be just as tasty.
I had the vegetable soup which was described as "rich and hearty". It turned out to be a bowl of vegetable stock with tinned plum tomatoes floating in it. The clam chowder did look a lot better and I was rather envious of DP for having that.
The Italian place was really lovely, though. If we'd been able to afford it I'd have happily eaten there every day. I know what you mean about the Italian/American cuisine being not the same as traditional Italian. I had lasagne that was like nothing I've ever had before - really delicious.

Well mistake number 1 was probably eating at faneuil hall and going off piste away from the chowder. There are so many amazing places in Boston...been about 5 years since I've beem back but there is ao much good food...not just seafood. Some amazing pizza, bakeries that do great fresh sandwiches, ethnic cuisine...there is a great Afghan place in Cambridge, agreed Mike's is hyped, Marias or the one next to Mikes (can't remember the name) is better. What i love about american indies isbthe pride they take and how often all is made from scratch ... house brined meat, whole joints cooked each day just for sandwiches
.... new england has great food options..just like most places you need to eat like a local when you visit and avoid the tourist traps!