To wonder why so many of UK mid range restaurants are poor value chains

[Dr1ftw00d]

Spent a few weeks in the US over the summer and noticed how easy it is to get individual, decently cooked, good quality food and portions often in long time restaurants.

Near where I live mid range equals a chain. Microwaved stuff with no individuality and often poorly cooked.

Why is this?

TheDragonFromDreams you have the best selection of food in south London Brixton is great for eating out

I find Wahaca very bland and expensive for what it is. I like Pizza Express but it is expensive

Nearly all restaurants I go to now are chains maybe smaller chains but after a while the quality appears to go down

NYC, Boston, Portland,SF, Seattle.....
This is going to a rather different food trip experience to the one I took through
Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin.
It doesn't mean there isn't any good food, there is but it often isn't exciting and even worse in some states it seems very hard to get a glass of wine of any sort with your meal. This is in the small towns rather than the big cities.
I agree that mid price chain restaurants in UK are pretty blah however. ( although they do have 🍷)

@pumkinspicetime me and DH had 2 large glasses of wine each in a small town drive by type restaurant in the US. We were staying in the motel over the road . They almost gave us an escort out. When we ordered the second glass they exclaimed ANOTHER???
This was the restaurant that told us they didn't have 'dry broccoli' as all vegetables came in a pre cooked cheese sauce.

I always think this too as DP and I are big fans of diners, drive in's and dives. We always say we wished there we're more quirky, home grown type places in the UK. We have a lot of curry and dessert places which aren't chains (or small chains 2/3 across the midlands for example). There does seem to be a few cafes that are not chains, but then they shut at 4/5 so not really good for evening meals, just Saturday light lunches.

Loads of nice independent options in my
town for coffee, ice cream, simple lunches, fancy dinners. And often cheaper than the chains, Bills for example is so expensive for what it is! The chains get plenty of custom because they are the safe option for many visitors who like to know what they are getting, they occupy the most high profile premises, they are often larger so usually have space at busy times when the small independents are full, they are family friendly.

I find most places disappointing (yes perhaps that says more about me!)

A short drive away from us is an awesome independent pub with great, freshly prepared food cooked in house. Mid range cost. Generally busy (we always book as you wouldn’t get a table on busier nights).
Just next to us is a chain pub with food that comes in in packets and is microwaved. Also mid range cost, also usually busy. Why??

Both are pubs that 90% of customers drive to so it’s not footfall.

I struggled in the US, I found Chicago quite good but the southern states really limited (especially for vegetarian food - usually the only offering was freezer to frier chips).

Isn’t the minimum wage for wait staff really low around $2 per hour and they are expected to make most of their money from tips.

It’s $2.13 and hour which isn’t much.

Costs are higher in UK (rents especially, but also wages for serving staff etc, food).

I think OP you are overlooking the space occupied by pubs in the UK. It may not be what you want, but it's a huge segment that doesn't exist in the same way in the U.S. There are loads of independent pubs near me doing fab food, decent prices, and they are what dominates the mid priced sector in many parts of UK.

I don't live on the UK mainland 'nearer to France, closer to home etc!) but we have many excellent non-chain restaurants here. To the extent where I won't eat fresh seafood in the UK unless it's in a seaside location! Good eating here is easy, if not in anyway cheaper. (Having said that, we often end up craving the odd UK chain we don't have!)

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed Brixton really is fabulous for food, I totally agree.

@JingsMahBucket

Same. It is usually disappointing. I groaned when I went to a southern-style American restaurant and they served me soggy fried green tomatoes. My grandparents are from the South, have a family cookbook and you wouldn’t be trusted in a kitchen if you served fried green tomatoes in that manner. It’s supposed to be crispy with the tomato still having a bit of firmness, not fall apart the moment you pick it up. Even some of the simplest foods are usually done poorly in my experience. I will have to admit though the best mac and cheese I ever had was in Edinburgh and the Mac Factory does a lovely chilli and I’m not even that fond of chilli.

OP I agree Cote is boring if you eat there often but it's good value. I bet if you were in one US town and had the same small chains to eat in you'd find the same. We struggled in NYC. Everywhere was so expensive. We went to a lovely looking local indie diner for breakfast and didn't have much and it came to over £100 just for coffee juice and pancakes for four. Where in US were you?

I think someone from US would be impressed by Indian food in UK, and some of the Turkish/middle eastern places, all of which are good value.

The place that wowed us was Japan. It was easy to have amazing food for less than a tenner per person every night if you just went to a local restaurant.

My son took me to a wonderful place in Soho recently called Bao. Taiwanese food. Really tasty, good value, trendy vibe. About £15 per head. We loved it. And we tried Tiffinbox Indian street food in the City which was also amazing and packed with Indian people so they obviously thought it was the closest thing to real Indian food.

I wouldn’t really agree with America being good value. 10 years ago, maybe, but with the poor pubs at the moment, by the time you add on tax and tip, then menu prices basically equal $=£

@Dr1ftw00d where did you eat in NYC? I was SO disappointed. The only places we had good food were a Michelin starred place that was doing cheap lunches on the Upper East side and a couscous bar that was OK-ish in Williamsburg. The rest was really badly cooked, overpriced fatty and bland. I ended up cooking at the apartment most of the time. I'd love some recommendations, especially for trad USA food from any part of the States.

I use the 5pm website if we want to eat out and don’t have a specific restaurant in mind. There are loads of nice restaurants where you can get 2 courses for under £12, sometimes including a drink.

I found the opposite, in the USA the food was more expensive (albeit bigger portions but I don't want big portions) and just glorified junk food. Drinks were particularly expensive. In the U.K. there's far more variety of chains and independent. With coupons you can save big in both countries so it's not about special offers.

American food quality is atrocious - Listeria and Salmonella are much more routine after a meal out than in the UK and Europe. As for not being able to find mid-range independent restaurants in London I think you need a reality check. London has the most mid-range independent restaurants in the world - but unlike the US advertising outside of Tripadvisor etc is expensive in London so you need to Google before you go

millie agreed! The food in NY is crap!

Ps I've lived on both sides of the Atlantic and it's definitely cheaper and better quality in the U.K. with the reassurance your server has to be paid minimum wage unlike in the USA.

I think it depends on where you live. I live in a town in West Yorkshire where there's loads of independent restaurants/cafes, some chains, we have a Pizza Express, Picolino's , Spoons, Costa and Cafe Nero, there might be one or two I've missed but they are far outnumbered by independent ones which are ace.
Before that I lived in a market town 6 miles away that only had a Costa and a Spoons with all the others bring independent.
The Costa was very controversial at the time, the locals hated the idea generally but it was popular with groups of young people who generally didnt go to the other cafes on their own.

PiL live in rural Pennsylvania. The restaurants are atrocious. We drive there from NYC and have yet to find a nice place to stop for lunch on the 5 hour drive.

I have had good food in New England but otherwise I'm.not impressed with US restaurants.

We do have a lot of chains in the UK but also some wonderful independents. As others have said, it's about rates, rent and high street presence. Off the main streets there are often fab mid-range places to eat, you just have to know they are there!

Right we need recommendations threads for both sides of the Atlantic because this talk of amazing places people have found is making me starving!

That's interesting about Costa. I remember one opening when I was about 14 and I loved it

I don’t remember amazing food in Boston when there for a year but it was a long time ago. My college friends are a fair bit of processed diet type stuff. Frozen yoghurt etc

Although Bread and Circus was nice, like Wholefoods.

It is true about bad chains here though it is odd. It could be the lack of strong cultural food heritage. And ease.

One big chain that owns a large chunk of these was a client, we had interesting discussions about quality of food.