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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be peed of with my sister ?

46 replies

elfsmum · 09/08/2007 12:47

she is looking after my 2 DS's so that DH and I can go to work during the summer hols, saving us a fortune in child care.

when dropping off DS's today, my nephew 4yrs said that my DS2 5yrs had used the naughty finger, it took me a couple of seconds to realise he meant the middle finger

I really told DS2 off, when he wouldn't tell me what he'd done I pushed all his buttons, show me your tongue, I'll tell the police and he got upset and said he coulnd't remember and I really do believe him.

my DS1 7 really interested in what the naughty finger is and nephew proceeds to tell him, I shouted at him not to (but I know he will later as kids do)

my sister questions her DS to discover that as I'd shouted bye my DS2 had lifted his hand to wave to me and nephew thought he'd done the naughty finger.

what is peeing me off is that we don't use that sort of gesturing (not even two fingers) and I'm appalled that my 2 have now learnt this, especially from family. I think it's utterly grotesque and scummy.

my sister has shrugged it off, thinks I'm niave to think they didn't already know (I KNOW they didn't)

I'm festering over this now.

OP posts:

Freckle · 09/08/2007 12:51

Well, the alternative is not to send your children there and then where would you be?

Perhaps your children didn't know this gesture but they would see it at some point. What you need to do now is not scream and shout at them about it, but sit down and explain why it is not acceptable and how disappointed you would be if they ever used it.

Tell them that, even if they see others doing it, including your nephew, they should not feel they can copy because it offends and upsets people.

And better that your children learn this from family in a safe and caring environment than from another child who means it in an offensive and upsetting way.

throckenholt · 09/08/2007 12:52

not much anyone could do about it though - your nephew misunderstood and made an issue of it - in good faith presumably.

Don't think your sister (or you) are to blame for it. I would guess they will all be exposed to that sort of thing from time to time - at school probably (unfortunately).

Perigrine · 09/08/2007 12:54

I think you are being VERY unreasonable, you don't know that your nephew will tell him later, and you don't know that your children have not already seen this gesture on the playground. If you don't like the children being looked after by your sister, PAY FOR CHILDCARE!!!!!!

onlyWotz · 09/08/2007 12:55

Let it pass, they all pick it up in school and you need to keep a balance, sounds like no-one was quiet sure of seeing him do it anyway.

onlyWotz · 09/08/2007 12:56

worse things will come like coming home from school and asking what fcuk means and why does it get spelt wrong?

blardy t-shirts!

LazyLineLegilimens · 09/08/2007 12:58

Of course you are being unreasonable. If you wanted your children to be looked after professionally, you should have paid for them to be looked after by a professional!

alicet · 09/08/2007 12:58

Have to say I agree with Freckle and Perigrine on this one. You can't keep your children locked in an innocence bubble however much you want to and your reaction to it probably means they will be more likely to use it for effect.

Absolutely NOT your sister's fault and if you have such fundamental differences on your approach to childcare its not really sensible to leave them with her is it?

Carmenere · 09/08/2007 13:00

O fgs. Elfsmum kids pick up crap like that, there is not much you can do about it and it could well have happened anywhere. all you can do is enforce the fact the you don't want your dc's to do it. Leave your poor sister alone.

hunkermunker · 09/08/2007 13:03

WTF kind of language is "I pushed all his buttons, show me your tongue, I'll tell the police" about your own child?! No wonder he got upset! I find that more grotesque and scummy, tbh.

Original poster

elfsmum · 09/08/2007 13:04

Thanks for your comments.

I did sit him down and cuddle him and apologise to him for telling him off for something he didn't do.

just for the record we are in a position to pay for childcare and have done since our children were born.

this was the first year that our DS's were both in school and we didn't feel it suitable for them to go to the nursery they had attended previously.

We did look for alternatives, and my sister and I discussed this, I became upset at the thought of them being with strangers, maybe not being supervised etc - cost was never an issue - my lovely sister offered to look after them.

We have made sure she isn't out of pocket and have provided the cash to make sure that all 4 children can go on days out, trips to the cinema etc (something unfortunately my sister wouldn't be able to afford to do with her own as she's on minimum income)

and she will be receiving some lovely gifts just for her

the issues was never about paying for childcare - although I can appreciate my opening post may have suggested that

the issue was about a safe and loving environment where I felt assured they were looked after

I didn't make an issue out of it with my sister but wanted to get it off my chest in a safe environment for me too

I shall chill out about it, and won't mention it to my boys unless I see them do it

OP posts:

lemonaid · 09/08/2007 13:06

You're being unreasonable. And if you hadn't laid into your DS2 so badly ("tell the police"? What on earth...) then the chances are it would have just been dropped. If you make it clear by your actions that whatever the "naughty finger" is it's something that requires extensive button-pushing, shouting, and potentially calling the police(!) then of course your DS1 is going to want to know what it is. And now it's your sister's fault...

Baffy · 09/08/2007 13:07

Even if elfsmum paid for professional childcare any other child could have taught them this.

I know it's horrible and not something you want your children to know. But they would have come across it one day.

I think that if you're upset at your sister's attitude of shrugging it off. Which I can understand tbh. At the least she could have pointed out in front of all the boys that it is not acceptable.

But at the end of the day she is doing you a massive favour looking after them and it is your job, as their mum, to do the explanations as to what is right and wrong.

If she's happy with her child doing it I guess that's up to her. Now you need to ask yourself if you're upset enough about it to want to pay for the boys to have professional child care?

alicet · 09/08/2007 13:08

Fair cop then elfsmum. Totally understand the need to vent on here - often do so myself and that is enough to make me calm down and not need to go and create a problem with whoever / whatever it was as the vent alone has calmed me down!

Think your initial post was a little misleading which is why you got a lot of negative comments....

Sounds like its actually a beneficial situation for both you and your sister and its all been blown a little out of proportion on here!

lemonaid · 09/08/2007 13:09

Sorry, I think that last post came out harsher than I meant it to. You are naturally very concerned about your DSs.

Original poster

elfsmum · 09/08/2007 13:09

have never been subjected to mumnet vitriol before

can honestly see now why some people get upset when you use a saying that is off the cuff an people get really emotive about it

perhaps pushed his buttons wasn't the right term to use, I apologise

OP posts:

Baffy · 09/08/2007 13:10

Ah just read your latest update. Fair enough.
Probably the op was slightly misleading.

And MN is the best place to vent!

Sounds like a good arrangement all round.

alicet · 09/08/2007 13:12

I can understand as a little while ago I posted about parent and toddler parking spaces not realising its been posted a lot before and got a lot of abuse about that.

I guess though if you post an AIBU thread you have to be prepared to be told that you are!!! Good on you for clarifying things in such a reasonable and mature manner rather than launching onto the 'oh you're all so horrible' rant that a lot of people seem to do.

Hope you and ds's enjoy the rest of your summer!

Original poster

elfsmum · 09/08/2007 13:17

Alicet you've got it right - wanted to vent on here, not make an issue of it with my sister, and it was the shrugging it off that annoyed me to be honest, she's a more experienced mum than me, and a bit more chilled over stuff like that.

just interested to know - how do others get theirs to tell the truth when you're not sure if they're lying or not.

DS2, as wonderful as he is, does have a habit of telling lies, but has one of those little innocent faces that if he told you the grass was blue you'd swear he was telling the truth.

Rightly or wrongly my steps to find out the truth or to deal with naughty behaviour are - not necessarily in this order:

show me your tongue - if it's black he's lying if not it's the truth - but he's got to the stage now this doesn't work
the police tell you off if you're lying so we'll phone the police
Father Christmas won't bring toys at Christmas
We'll phone Mrs X (teacher)
naugty step
treat that have been rewards for good behaviour are withdrawn (making cakes etc)

as a backdrop to this we also have an ongoing reward system for good behaviour which means magazine when we shop etc

OP posts:

hunkermunker · 09/08/2007 13:18

I just don't think it's an appropriate way to ascertain the facts of a situation, to badger a 5yo in that way, that's all.

hunkermunker · 09/08/2007 13:22

My problems with your list are as follow:

show me your tongue - if it's black he's lying if not it's the truth - but he's got to the stage now this doesn't work

No wonder - his tongue won't be black if he's lying. You're lying to HIM, in fact, telling him it will be.

the police tell you off if you're lying so we'll phone the police

Will you? I think the police might have more important things to do. Unless you will phone the police, again, you're lying to him.

Father Christmas won't bring toys at Christmas

Really? Again, unless you follow through with this, he will get toys at Christmas and you'll be shown as a liar again. Also, Christmas in August - for a 5yo (well, for me, actually!) is a long way off.

We'll phone Mrs X (teacher)

Again, will you?

naugty step

I have other issues with the naughty step and wouldn't use it. I don't think it's appropriate for potentially lying either - what if he's telling the truth? You're automatically punishing him - where's the reward for being truthful? He might as well lie anyway if he's going to go on the step.

treat that have been rewards for good behaviour are withdrawn (making cakes etc)

Again, what if he IS telling the truth?

EffiePerine · 09/08/2007 13:22

I wouldn't use the police or the tongue think because theya re lies as well, yes? Perhaps make it clear that lying not acceptable, say why and have clear punishment liek naughty step? I'd also look into WHY he is lying - is he afraid (rightly or wrongly) of the consequences?

alicet · 09/08/2007 13:23

Not had to deal with this issue yet as ds only 18 months. Not looking forward to it to be honest. Have read sometimes though that giving a lot of attention (even negative) can reinforce bad behaviour as they like the attention. However don't feel qualified to comment when I haven't had to deal with it myself!

Original poster

elfsmum · 09/08/2007 13:23

so the alternatives are ??

OP posts:

hunkermunker · 09/08/2007 13:24

If you constantly use rewards and bribes for lying or "naughty" behaviour, you end up with a child who will lie because they don't want to lose treats.

If you use a system that fosters mutual respect and trust, you don't need bribes - yes, you can do nice things for them and sometimes there will be occasions when you can offer a treat in return for something specific, of course - but I couldn't live in a family with an "if you do this, then I'll do that" atmosphere to it.

EffiePerine · 09/08/2007 13:24

Maybe shift emphasis from finding him out (is he lying) to making sure he knows he shouldn't lie and why, plus what will happen if he does. He also needs a let-out clause if he has lied and wants to take it back IYSWIM. Not an expert though

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