To not understand the obsession with SUVs/4x4s?

[GinDaddy]

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views below. Nearly every parent I know in my area has a 4x4 car of some sort. That's dozens of folk. The car parks at our local supermarket are covered in the things.

My AIBU is to ask, what is the obsession with these things? Why are they the "default" choice for parents now, considering so many folk can't park them properly, and our roads aren't set up for them?

I watched in amused horror yesterday as a lady with a Vauxhall Grandland X (yep...me neither) tried to park head-first in a bay in our local supermarket. The width of the thing was the issue, but once "parked", the rear of the car was practically touching the front of the neighbouring vehicle.

It was just absurd. Why is this car any better than an Astra estate, or in the same price category, a Skoda Octavia estate, both of which are narrower and better on fuel, and the Skoda which has extraordinary amounts of luggage capacity and legroom?

I think the answer is simple, it's an image thing. People feel their life is more exciting with DCs if they're in something that looks like it could climb a mountain at the weekend.

Only problem is, my DW and I find public car parks absurd at the moment as I find more and more of these hideous things parked terribly at every juncture.

The beauty of living in a capitalist economy is the prerogative of choice, helped by dollops of PCP finance handed out by every car dealer, meaning anyone can get into a boxy car on stilts.

But for goodness sake can people learn how to drive and park these things if they're going to be bought by everyone? Driving down streets with parked cars on either side is a game of "my car is bigger than yours, so move over", which is just embarrassing.

NOTE: I have no issues with envy here; we have a 6-year old estate car from a well known Bavarian marque with a three letter acronym. I don't ride 2mm off people's bumpers, and it serves our family's needs well.

I drove up the M1 and M6 and back this week. I’d say 2/3 of the vehicles were lorries and vans. Why not campaign for most freight to go by rail; and take all that off the roads? Many accidents involving bikes seem to be with lorries in London at least

Rubs hands, cracks knuckles
Freight cannot go by rail during daylight, there's no capacity. Containers are the only exception, and it takes 2 days to move one between railheads. You still need a 44 tonne artic at either end. Perishables, just-in-time, out of gauge such as my daily Midlands to the Northeast run: not possible.
Define "bigger". Standard HGVs come in maximum permitted dimensions, and a maximum weight at 6 axles. They look bigger, as the cabs are higher to improve airflow and visibility. Longer trailers are being trialled at 14.4 and 15.2 metres, but you'd be hard put to actually distinguish them. There are more double-deckers to maximise volume as well. HGVs are fuel efficient, much more so than small vans. I can carry 20 tonnes 300 miles in 40 gallons of diesel. 20 transits would burn 250 gallons, and cost 15x my wages.
Cyclist collisions in cities are tragic, but are very low given the miles travelled. Some are avoidable by the HGV driver, some by the cyclists. Better visibility is being implemented, but when a cyclist undertakes me and smacks his head into the wing mirror, my firm won't hesitate to use the camera footage to teach him a lesson.

Except thats very rarely what happens in fatal collisions between cyclists and lorries. Its usually the lorry driver over taking the cyclist.

That was the case in the most recent fatal collision, the cement mixer. We just have to keep plugging away on both sides.

Given that the majority of cycle deaths in these type of large vehicle collisions are not due to cyclist error, i would think that the people who need to be 'taught lessons' are the drivers of these vehicles.

Before getting ill I had a electric car, so 0 emissions. Unfortunately, it was too low for me to get into, and couldn't fit my electric wheelchair in the boot so had to get an SUV. I'm looking forward to decent priced electric SUVs arriving soon, but until then I have no choice.

Kia eNiro (don't know how you define "decent price" though, and it's so new that you won't get a used one for a little while)

What I do worry about is why you'd think that all the features you list, can't be found in a more environmentally friendly format of car.

Number of passenger seats available - back in 2003 when I bought mine I needed the 8 seats;
Climate - need AC in summer and clearance plus 4x4 feature for winter driving;
Cost of servicing - where manufactured and ease of finding spare parts;
Fuel efficiency/type of driving anticipated - nothing is as efficient in built up area driving as it's going to be on the motorway;
Initial cost of vehicle - not everyone can afford a Tesla or even a Prius.

Some of us wonder where the electricity is coming from to power electric vehicles.

Some of us drive in weather that rules out bicycles. Too hot and humid in summer, too cold/icy in winter. And basically, not that safe. Plus bikes are stolen at an alarming rate.

And on the subject of bikes, I live in a place where there are 2-way and 4-way stops, which tend to be ignored by cyclists.
About 1500 bike riding teens disgorge themselves onto the roads of my suburb from various schools between 2.30 and 3.30 daily and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of bike helmets I have seen in use since the last week of August when school started up again.

You clearly don't give a flying fuck about the environment.
There is no need to hector, and I suspect you will find it is completely counter productive.
All vehicles and even electric vehicles leave a carbon footprint.

Not bikes

And bikes for the heavily pregnant or those schlepping three children around are not practical. Similarly impractical if you want to carry your week's groceries home. Same goes for biking in hot and humid weather and bitter cold, and rain. And biking in inhospitable traffic conditions, or when your route from home to work and back again takes you through gang infested city blocks. Or through streets that have potholes or debris strewn on the side of the road. Or to and from work if you have nowhere you can change into work clothing.

And when you take a bicycle with trailer to the tip to get rid of a trailer full of garden rubbish they don't know how to classify you; clearly you are not really a vehicle, but equally you are not a pedestrian, and they have to call the boss before they can let you in.

It's a hard life when you ride a bike.

"2nd hand wasn't an option for DP."
I'm not even going to bother asking why.
You clearly don't give a flying fuck about the environment.

Simple, he has only ever bought 2nd hand and in a few years the repairs add up fast. Parts harder to get. It gets expensive. He now has a warranty, free services.
He had an insurance payout and finally got to buy a new car, he never had one straight from the manufacturer. The payout is for PTSD so he wants top of the line safety as well as many other features. That can only be done new.

Selfish pricks like squeekums are why there needs to be severe financial disincentives to buying big silly fuel guzzling cars
Ahh yes buying a car that suits our needs is totes selfish LMAO. Or it's like practical.......
Oh and this car uses much less diesel than his old car did. The money we saving is huge

I have an SUV. It has 7 seats which we need at weekends, a massive boot which can hold our travel system and my sons bike, and it’s high up, therefore my elderly grandmother can get in and out easily when I take her to the supermarket. I have no issues parking it, I find it easier to park than my Fiat 500, and while it’s fuek economy isn’t great, it’s a sacrifice I make in order to meet our physical needs.

@fedupski

There are a number of electric and hybrid 4x4s

Vast majority of PHEVs are never used in electric/hybrid mode.

@Boobiliboobiliboo

How do you know that? What authority do you quote that supports this supposition?

SUV hybrids like the Mitsubishi Outlander etc, have limited electric range - yes. So they might drive a short number of miles on electric power before the petrol motor kicks in, this is an inherent challenge with hybrid techonology.

It's a darn sight better however than the ubiquitous 2.0 litre diesel which has been rated as Euro 6, but in reality chugs out tons of particulates in built up areas, but was marketed and sold to us as clean and tax friendly because we used to rate vehicle tax on Co2 and not particulates or emissions as a whole.

Yeah, in these instances I'd rather live near a hybrid which is throwing out cleaner emissions, even if it can't be used in electric mode all the time.

How do you know that? What authority do you quote that supports this supposition?

There was a report about the state of second hand ones. Might have been Mitzi themselves that published it. I’ll see if I can find it.

SUV hybrids like the Mitsubishi Outlander
So looking at specs it wouldn't do what we needed. Wouldn't even move our boat or caravan.

Pajero sport in diesel does everything and has that bit more room

I am not at all sure about getting an electric car because (quite apart from sometimes driving three hundred miles in a day between us when going across Europe, and knowing that they won't go that far without recharging) I have a nasty feeling that by the time an electric car is second-hand and I could afford it, the battery will be reaching the end of its useable life.

I wish it were possible for the batteries to be interchangeable, so you could drive into the "fill-up stop", take out the nearly-flat battery and exchange it for a fully-charged battery, pay the man as you do for petrol and drive off straight away, instead of having long enforced breaks in your journey.

To an extent, I believe it is an image thing for a few people, but I do think you are generalising, OP

We've had SUV type cars since I've become increasingly disabled as they're easier for me to get in & out of, there's lots of leg room for me and the boots have plenty of room for my wheelchair and other aids. They also seem to be a smoother ride to me; a bumpy ride would be incredibly painful for me and I'd probably avoid travelling without these advantages.

We also live rurally in Scotland, have been snowed in a few times since we moved here, so really appreciate SUVs and their AWD capabilities.

@SteelRiver

...and all of this (especially the rural Scotland part) sounds like the exact reasons why those vehicles are made, I would choose the same with your criteria.

I think that's been part of the challenge with this thread - many people who tow, or live rurally, or farm, have fantastic reasons for owning 4x4s and are fulsome in their praise and expression of their utility.

I'm just struggling sometimes to see how so many of these cars in purely urban settings, is going to lead to anything but standoffs in narrow streets, parking chaos, etc.

People choose their cars based on many things, need, lifestyle, budget etc. Of course there are people that choose a car as it’s trendy, that goes for all models though not just SUV or 4 x 4. I own a saloon that doesn’t fit into parking spaces as it’s so long I’m not sure it’s fair to claim that all SUV or 4 x 4 drivers can’t park, some spaces are just stupidly small these days. I will change my car in the next 12 to 18 months and it will probably be an SUV as my lifestyle means a lot of motorway driving, lot s of stuff to lug around and a couple dogs in tow. I personally don’t particularly like estates I think they are ugly. I always find it odd how people get so upset with each other over cars! If you own a 4 x 4 you cant Park, BMW you don’t indicate etc it’s all a bit silly really

Where does the lithium come from for the electric car batteries?

Chile produces most, then Australia, China, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Portugal and Brazil in that order. The USA has some, but not in the same league as the South American sources.

I go to a supermarket whose car-park was laid out in 1992, and I can absolutely say that the bays are the same size now as they were then; they have not got smaller. Not have the bays in my local NCP car park. Range Rovers never did fit into either particularly well.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Thanks. How green is lithium mining?

I like mine as bending down to strap the children in their seats etc hurt my back especially when pregnant. Our car is just the right height that I hardly have to bend to do it now. Also I can stand or sit the children in the boot to get them changed easily and out of the wind/rain after muddy walks and there is plenty of room for the pram too 🙂 image doesn't even come into it a tiny bit, it's a practical family car and that's it.