To not understand the obsession with SUVs/4x4s?

[GinDaddy]

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views below. Nearly every parent I know in my area has a 4x4 car of some sort. That's dozens of folk. The car parks at our local supermarket are covered in the things.

My AIBU is to ask, what is the obsession with these things? Why are they the "default" choice for parents now, considering so many folk can't park them properly, and our roads aren't set up for them?

I watched in amused horror yesterday as a lady with a Vauxhall Grandland X (yep...me neither) tried to park head-first in a bay in our local supermarket. The width of the thing was the issue, but once "parked", the rear of the car was practically touching the front of the neighbouring vehicle.

It was just absurd. Why is this car any better than an Astra estate, or in the same price category, a Skoda Octavia estate, both of which are narrower and better on fuel, and the Skoda which has extraordinary amounts of luggage capacity and legroom?

I think the answer is simple, it's an image thing. People feel their life is more exciting with DCs if they're in something that looks like it could climb a mountain at the weekend.

Only problem is, my DW and I find public car parks absurd at the moment as I find more and more of these hideous things parked terribly at every juncture.

The beauty of living in a capitalist economy is the prerogative of choice, helped by dollops of PCP finance handed out by every car dealer, meaning anyone can get into a boxy car on stilts.

But for goodness sake can people learn how to drive and park these things if they're going to be bought by everyone? Driving down streets with parked cars on either side is a game of "my car is bigger than yours, so move over", which is just embarrassing.

NOTE: I have no issues with envy here; we have a 6-year old estate car from a well known Bavarian marque with a three letter acronym. I don't ride 2mm off people's bumpers, and it serves our family's needs well.

@allthethings

Couldn't agree more with all of this

all you could say the same thing about cars in general.

I prefer cycling and walking, I barely drive. I get pissed off with all the cars on the road. Drive too fast, pollute, ram into people etc.

What's the difference.

so you own two cars but think you can have a go at people in SUVs

It's not the two cars, it's the amount of mileage you do in them. We have two cars but neither of us drives for work so the overall mileage is low. I sometimes cycle to local meetings. It's a bit of a waste to have two cars in our case, but sometimes it's convenient if we need to be in two places at once. If we had a car club I would have seriously considered it as an option but we don't have one locally. I don't like taxis and only get them as a last resort.

SUVs appeal to peoples self importance, they aren't needed outside of the farm and our reliance on cars is helping to destroy the planet.
Aside, most SUV's have very limited off road capability

We should be moving to smaller, more environmentally friendly vehicles, it not just fuel efficiency, its the environmental cost of producing such large cars, engines, tyres.... or the kids you all need to transport about won't have a planet to live on.

I'd support a change in urban environment set up to favour the pedestrian and cyclist and inconvenience the car driver.

@berlinbabylon

I only drive mine for about 3 months a year. Am I excused then?

@mathanxiety

What is this stuff about "what do you do if you have 2 kids older than 12.."

Erm...

BMW 2 Series Active/Grand Tourer
Citroen C4 Picasso
Vauxhall Zafira
Ford Galaxy/S Max
Seat Alhambra
Volkswagen Sharan

And so on.

I'm just a bit weary of this pernicious fallacy that "need 7 seats = large SUV".

How did we manage in the late nineties? Oh I forget - MPVs were fashionable then, and that's the key thing - SUVs are fashionable now.

I had a poster earlier in this thread who mocked estate cars as a category because they seemed "old fashioned/outdated".

This is the key here - there is a fashion element to this and everyone knows it but few are prepared to admit it.

It just also happens to be a fashion that I and others on this thread believe will have a greater impact on us and communities

Agree completely. I had an SUV when I lived out in the sticks had to go off road to get to the cottage I lived in as was on an estate of a big house! It was actually great when I needed it - could get places in heavy snow and great on very very poorly maintained one track roads.

Now we’ve been in a town for a few yrs I’ve finally got myself a mini MPV instead and it’s soooo fab. Smaller for parking, more economical, and still feels very comfortable and roomy inside. Both DD (11 and 5ft5) and 6ft DH can comfortably sit in the back and we can put a box on top to go camping. It’s our only family car and I’m fine with that.

Plus...I get let out a hell of a lot more! I do think people are nicer to me now I’m in what we call “my little toot toot” rather than a beast.

I have to admit to not letting SUVs out of junctions because I don't want to have a high car in front of me and I am usually very generous and kind to cars waiting to come out of side roads onto the main road.

Buses use their size and position above the road to forcefully change lanes etc., there is an assumption that smaller vehicles will give way to larger ones. As an urban driver, I find that many SUV type cars use the same techniques.

I think all cars are being designed with bigger dimensions now. Even small cars are now wider than their earlier models. People don’t feel safe surrounded by much bigger vehicles. It’s an arms race.

So, on the argument of 1 4x4 vs 2 ‘other’ cars. Is it just about mileage? I’d argue not.

What about the production of the vehicles themselves? Car production is pretty harmful to the environment (especially electric cars, ironically). The mining of the materials required, the transport of raw materials, the manufacture of the raw materials into parts, the shipping of parts all over the world, VOCs from rubber, plastics & paint, transport of vehicles from factories, from storage to retailers... Pretty generous carbon footprint there.

However, it does seem that larger, more powerful luxury cars (with the exception of battery powered vehicles because of the harm related to the mining of metals required) have larger production carbon footprints than those of smaller cars with smaller power-output engines. That said, is 1 average 4x4 more or less than the total of 2 average smaller cars?

For disclosure purposes, I’m playing devil’s advocate here as DH and I have more than 2 cars between us (including a 4x4).

They all think they’re farmers 😂 honestly unless you live in the countryside/and if you’re a farmer there’s no need to have one. They’re ugly, too big for city/Suburban roads and they’re awful for the environment.

I don't think financial sanctions will be effective they will just give these vehicles more status and kudos because you have to be wealthy to afford one, we need restrictions on vehicle size and weight otherwise the trend will continue.
We should be encouraging small environmentally friendly vehicles and cycling, the rise in suvs is counterproductive and anti progressive

"Do you fill your boot and your back seat and front passenger seat on a daily basis? Do all other car drivers?"

This is a very good point and a big problem. Most people don't drive full or even half-full cars. Most of the time it's just one driver and maybe a passenger.

I think we should have much better public transport, and more car-sharing; we need to make them as convenient and easy as possible but of course many people will still prefer to drive their own car.

However, when people do drive their own car, I think if it's mostly just used by one person, it should ideally be a small, fuel efficient one with low emissions. The bigger the car, the more you have to use its full capacity (seats and/or boot) in order to justify the extra production costs (in materials, energy and waste), fuel consumption and emissions.

It's not really about me, since I don't own a Landrover Discovery or indeed any other huge SUV, so I'm not posting on this thread to justify myself. However, since you asked, my DH and I live in a small city and we have one child, we own 1 car (a Skoda Octavia as I've already mentioned) and we use a mixture of the car, bike and public transport to get around. Most of the time when we use the car it has 2-3 of us in it, plus a pushchair in the boot, but I do sometimes drive it to work with just me in it (up to twice a week).

It's a dilemma isn't it. Is it better to own just 1 multi-purpose vehicle (as we do) or to own 2 vehicles - a small one that you drive by default and a larger one that you only use when needed for extra passengers and/or cargo?

This is off-topic from the original post but...

I used to cycle for any journey under 5 miles each way unless I had too much luggage to carry that day.

Now I've got DD (2) and I would love to still be able to cycle to get from A to B but it is absolutely not safe to cycle with a small child on our local (country) roads. They're narrow and windy and I would fear a car zooming around the corner and going into her trailer.

DD loves going for bike rides but in order to do that I have to load up the car with bike and trailer and travel to a country park with traffic free cycling in order for it to be safe.

So it's a triple whammy of bad:

1. I now have to use the car for short journeys that could be cycled with better cycle routes or better drivers traveling at appropriate speeds for twisty roads

2. If we do fancy a bike ride we do an hour's round trip of driving to get somewhere safe to do so which feels horribly bad emissions wise when some decent cycle paths locally would mean this wasn't necessary

3. I am significantly less fit than I was when I was cycling everywhere so I am more likely to be a drain on the NHS (not to mention that my mental health was fabulous when I was cycling everywhere)

I so wish we could sort out cycling in this country but I honestly believe it's never going to happen outside the cities.

posterEntirelyAnonymised

My situation is that we only recently acquired a 2nd car when it was absolutely necessary and that 2nd car is 7 years old and will be used by DD when she learns to drive soon. We do a mixture of cycling, walking, public transport and we won't be looking to upgrade the small car. It will be kept for DD2 to drive and we'll either keep it or go back to one car when we no longer have dependent children. Neither of us favour a long commute and have tried to live close to our workplaces. I realise that is not easily done for many people.

However, the people I know with an SUV also have a 2nd car - a lot newer and higher-status than our 2nd car. One family both live within 15 minutes walking distance of their workplace/kids' school. I don't know any family with one car. We were a rarity to hold out for 15 years as a family with one car.

Plenty of people have no cars

@Vulpine

That's great for them. But some people can't get to work/get kids to school etc without them.

@Vulpine, but very very few people who live in rural areas where a car is essential for driving the five miles to the doctor, or the seven miles to a supermarket.

We noticed visiting friends in London a month ago (we drove there and back because the fuel cost was about half the cost of the train fare for two) how dense the transport network was, and needs to be for the population size, and it's simply impossible and not cost-effective to replicate a similar public transport infrastructure efficiently for a sparsely populated area. They don't need to own a car, and hire one to travel to see friends who live rurally but oh, the judgement when we admitted a preference for diesel cars because of the fuel economy. Quite apart from the lack of charging points; I don't think there is one within 20 miles.

We are three adults, and three car family. Everyone works, and there are no buses that would get DS from home to work when his shift starts at 6:45 and his late finishes may be at 2:00 am.

It's a dilemma if you have one child AnotherEmma.

The answer is very clear the more children you have. I have five children and the answer was a no brainier.

Well yes obviously people with lots of children need bigger cars, that much is a no brainer.

I didn't mention it in my previous post but we are hoping for a second child which will mean up to 4 passengers in our car.

I still don't think it's necessary for people with 0-2 children to have an SUV at all let alone a massive one.

I'd better not get into my opinions about the ethics of having children (or lots of them), that will NOT go down well

@AnotherEmma I totally agree

Golf sized hatchback more than enough for any typical family of 4 or less

Well the Golf's boot is pretty small if you have young children and all the associated paraphernalia (pushchair, and then all the extra stuff for trips - travel cot, high chair, etc).

However there are hatchbacks similar size or slightly bigger than the Golf with bigger boots - the new Skoda Scala for example (I'm a fan of Skoda can you tell )