To not understand the obsession with SUVs/4x4s?

[GinDaddy]

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views below. Nearly every parent I know in my area has a 4x4 car of some sort. That's dozens of folk. The car parks at our local supermarket are covered in the things.

My AIBU is to ask, what is the obsession with these things? Why are they the "default" choice for parents now, considering so many folk can't park them properly, and our roads aren't set up for them?

I watched in amused horror yesterday as a lady with a Vauxhall Grandland X (yep...me neither) tried to park head-first in a bay in our local supermarket. The width of the thing was the issue, but once "parked", the rear of the car was practically touching the front of the neighbouring vehicle.

It was just absurd. Why is this car any better than an Astra estate, or in the same price category, a Skoda Octavia estate, both of which are narrower and better on fuel, and the Skoda which has extraordinary amounts of luggage capacity and legroom?

I think the answer is simple, it's an image thing. People feel their life is more exciting with DCs if they're in something that looks like it could climb a mountain at the weekend.

Only problem is, my DW and I find public car parks absurd at the moment as I find more and more of these hideous things parked terribly at every juncture.

The beauty of living in a capitalist economy is the prerogative of choice, helped by dollops of PCP finance handed out by every car dealer, meaning anyone can get into a boxy car on stilts.

But for goodness sake can people learn how to drive and park these things if they're going to be bought by everyone? Driving down streets with parked cars on either side is a game of "my car is bigger than yours, so move over", which is just embarrassing.

NOTE: I have no issues with envy here; we have a 6-year old estate car from a well known Bavarian marque with a three letter acronym. I don't ride 2mm off people's bumpers, and it serves our family's needs well.

allthethings do you not own anything a bit frivolous then?

Probably, but nothing that has such a negative impact on other people.

Car-wise we have an estate and a hatchback. When driving short journeys of a few miles around the city, we tend to take out the hatchback. Small cars are ideal for city-life. It pisses me off massively that I now encounter so many high, wide, weighty cars zooming around the urban streets.

I drop off kids to sports and the car park is full of SUVs and all of those people will have come from the local area. 1 or 2 miles drive away. Often they are just dropping off one or two children who don't need car seats. It is madness to clog up the roads of our small country like this. You're entitled to do what you like but others are entitled to point out the madness of it.

Shmithecat2 If you're able to buy and insure a 4X4 SUV for your 17 year old then you clearly have a different income bracket and priorities to the majority of the country. A 17 year old male driving an SUV? shudder

In case that remark of yours was actually a serious one, it's not the responsibility of the car in front to spare the car behind from any damage resulting from a collision.

The poster I was responding to seemed to think that a tow bar would make their car safer. I was trying to point out that the only impact it would have would be to others.

@ethelfleda said

"YABU
You don’t have to ‘understand’ why other people do things they do, choose cars they do or generally how they live their lives as it is none of your business."

Well I wish I'd read that before reading economics at university, could have saved myself thousands of pounds of bother once I knew I don't ever have to understand why people make economic choices in life

Well, you know what they say... Big cars, tiny...

@zingally

Tiny what?

Tiny what? Boobs? Bum? Vagina?

Have been away for a few days but as OP thought I'd come on and reply.

As with most posts on the internet, what is written is heavily subject to interpretation and I recognise that some folk will read and think of it as a direct attack on their lifestyle choices.

I think for me, I was more keen to start a debate (which has happened in spades) about why so many of these things are out there, considering that only a couple of decades ago, they were a niche choice.

Moreover, now that they are here, and big, and driven by people with varying ranges of driving ability, what the impact then is on the population as a whole.

One small thought:

The feeling of being higher up has been talked about loads on here. I've been in a Qashqai hire car for a short period of time. Was higher up, but didn't make any real difference to my driving.

However I've read posts from people saying "I can't see out of low cars"..can't the seat squabs be adjusted in hatchbacks to get the correct view?

I think we just have an arms race happening so to speak, where higher up SUVs mean more visibility is blocked, meaning the best choice becomes..an SUV.

@SoyDora

Tiny what? Boobs? Bum? Vagina?

Well, quite. I'm curious about what @zingally is referring to..

Boobs - nope. Surprisingly bountiful even after nearly 4 years of breastfeeding.
Bum - nope. Sadly.
Vagina - fairly intact after 1 birth and 30 stitches. Not sure 'tiny' suits. Tidy maybe?

😂

*When I see parents purely focusing on the smallest car that's the cheapest to insure for their children, it makes me shudder. You need the safest car you can afford for them , not the cheapest"

And you are clearly not reading the posts on here that state that some smaller cars have 5* safety ratings!

@berlinbabylon

Yes, I'm aware. Some SUVs have 5* ratings too. I was referring to looking for small cars purely because they're cheap to insure. Was my post not explicit enough?

When I see parents purely focusing on the smallest car that's the cheapest to insure for their children, it makes me shudder. You need the safest car you can afford for them , not the cheapest

There is so much confused thinking here.

You're accusing some parents of being "cheap", and focusing on this supposed arms race of size equalling safety. So to you, a bigger car equals a safer car, and parents should somehow "spend more" to ensure they get a large sized car...

Only the thing is, go to the NCAP website and look at some popular estates, SUVs and saloons from the last decade or so. The kind of cars that would realistically be bought for kids by parents being safety conscious in your opinion.

Not all of them are five stars or get good passenger occupancy rating. Cars aren't just a case of "big = best" when it comes to safety.

The Volkswagen up! scores 5* in NCAP ratings. It's a car I'd be very happy for my DCs to drive - it's a fantastic little structure

Yes I understand the theory that "the taller a car is, the better it will fare in an accident because a taller car will more heavily damage a lower car if they collide." This is sound.

But I'd rather my DCs learned in something they can handle safely and correctly, and learn defensive driving techniques.

where will the arms race end, will we all drive tanks because that's the only way to be safe on the road due to all the massive vehicles?
Those who are saying I need it because of my 5 dogs and two horses, well is it reasonable to have 5 dogs and 2 horses if this means you now have to drive a massive vehicle which makes the roads less safe for everyone?
To what extent must we allow our personal freedom to impose upon the safety of society as a whole?

@GinDaddy

You're accusing some parents of being "cheap", and focusing on this supposed arms race of size equalling safety. So to you, a bigger car equals a safer car, and parents should somehow "spend more" to ensure they get a large sized car...

I didn't accuse anyone of being cheap - my point was cheapest to insure. But if cherry picking bits of my post to suit your own agenda makes you feel better, crack on.

The Volkswagen up! scores 5 star in NCAP ratings. It's a car I'd be very happy for my DCs to drive - it's a fantastic little structure

So does the Discovery 5 - a car I'd be very happy for my son to drive. What's your point?

But I'd rather my DCs learned in something they can handle safely and correctly, and learn defensive driving techniques.

So would I. I don't think that being able to do all those things and driving an SUV are mutually exclusive, are they?

Shmithecat2 after three large babies I’d be more than happy for someone to say to me ‘big car, small vagina’

bom Tell you what, I’ll give up towing a trailer with horses in for your bull safety of others, when all the crappy short distance drivers give up any hobbies or businesses that involve they or their dc needing to travel by car. And of course with all these shit drivers off the roads it will be a lot safer and easier to ride to local venues.

I passed my test over 20yrs ago, drive a few hundred miles a week minimum, and have yet to have a scratch, let alone a bump. So how about eg all the Picasso drivers downsize because I’ve decided they must all fit the stereotype of the incompetent school run style driver by comparison. And all Yaris drivers are too elderly to be safe on the roads. Let’s all jump to conclusions.

In fact, everyone that doesn’t have advanced driving qualifications needs to stop being selfish and putting their desire to drive over the safety of others. Not simply pass plus, everyone needs emergency service level driving skills and at least a class 2 or they are imposing on other road users. Let’s all be fucking ridiculous.

Alternatively instead of towing a trailer for shorter journeys, I’ll drive a smaller car and drive the hgv box for transporting horses all the time. Despite being a shit load bigger and more costly it doesn’t seem to provoke the same level of inverse snobbery.

gin my dc learnt initially in an ancient defender. They can both very competently drive and manoeuvre huge vehicles with trailers or machinery attached. I’m therefore not remotely concerned about the ability of the one old enough to have a licence and drive in public spaces to handle a newer 4x4.

Contrary to mn we don’t all lack spatial awareness and need six months practice before we can confidently drive anything bigger than our tiny runarounds. Or need time to adapt to unfamiliar vehicles.

@TrainspottingWelsh

You're tacitly accusing me of being patronising here - I don't believe everyone has spatial awareness issues and your DC learning in a Defender sounds ace, they're wonderful vehicles. I too however still have the right to state that I think my DCs will be just fine in a super mini class vehicle.

As I've said before on previous posts in this thread, I'm not here to call out people's individual lifestyle choices - who the hell has the right to do that anyway?

I would like, and have tried, to have a debate about the general landscape of SUVs being the default choice, and the chaos this sometimes causes in urban areas. That's my experience and like many on Mumsnet, I've started a post based on my experience. Not that of a horsebox towing individual living in rural/remote areas.

@SoyDora

😂

OP says - I'm not here to call out people's individual lifestyle choices - who the hell has the right to do that anyway?

OP also says - what is the obsession with these things? Why are they the "default" choice for parents now, considering so many folk can't park them properly, and our roads aren't set up for them?

Whatever. If you are going to be a snidey judge, at least own it.

My 4x4 (new shape Volvo XC60) is pretty much as safe as it gets for those inside and outside (other cars, pedestrians, cyclists). It has collision avoidance technology, pedestrian detection and loads of other safety features. It scores better than most superminis on everything. So you can keep your holier-than-thou evangelising about how 4x4 drivers only care about themselves/loved ones.

Euro NCAP for my car www.euroncap.com/en/results/volvo/xc60/28534

Euro NCAP for a few popular superminis (including the Up! - shit if you hit a pedestrian)
VW Up
Ford Focus
Fiat 500
Vauxhall Astra
Audi A3

@EntirelyAnonymised

So you can keep your holier-than-thou evangelising about how 4x4 drivers only care about themselves/loved ones.

I think that's deflecting one set of arguments by pointing over there at a whole load of other ones.

There are some arguments that 4x4s cause more harm to pedestrians in a crash. You've refuted that with the example of your new Volvo XC60. And yes there are many other new SUVs where pedestrian detection/pedestrian airbags are standard, making them more safer.

However the set of arguments we're ignoring here is that more wide large cars, sometimes (not always) piloted by poor drivers, means there's a larger chance of accidents, silly car park scrapes, people being blocked in, poor parking outside school gates, silly situations on narrow roads where SUV driver refuses to reverse...

..and that can all happen no matter what tech a person's SUV has.

I'm just quietly trying to put forward the notion that thousands of these jacked up wide cars on a small island with ancient parking infrastructure and narrow roads, is going to lead to more issues. If we don't agree then fair enough.

Also, while it's fine to dismiss holier than thou types, I respect that, I still think some of the arguments can't be so easily dismissed.

As in, it's still true that an SUV will consume more fuel than a normal family hatchback (yes there are Toyota and Lexus hybrid ones, the Kia Niro etc, but my point stands).

An SUV will cost more in terms of resources, metals etc to produce due to its size.

An SUV will cause more wear to the roads due to its weight, which is unnecessary if it's not being used off road or as a towing vehicle.

Etc etc...

I'm not saying people have to hand in their SUVs to save the planet, as we'd need to hand back our passports, and anything remotely fun or necessary for transit.

I'm just commenting that some of the "SUVs are brilliant, they cause no impact to anyone around us" is just blinkered thinking by folk who don't want anything they do placed under the auspices of being questioned.

we need legislation to restrict the size of vehicles, without it we are stuck in an arms race where where cars get bigger and bigger and everyone loses out

I don't think we need higher taxes for larger vehicles, I think we need restrictions, if your vehicle is over a certain weight you can only use it at certain times and on certain routes

"Probably, but nothing that has such a negative impact on other people.

Car-wise we have an estate and a hatchback."

so you own two cars but think you can have a go at people in SUVs?

We only have the one. I'd say that about evens things out.