Girls are eager to please

[topsagain]

I have a DD and a DS. My DD is eager to please the teachers and is well behaved and will do anything to get praise, which she responds to. My DS doesn't care, actively dislikes being told to do something and resists at every oppurtunity. Is this the nature of girls vs boys in general.

My dd was never a wanting to please girl.

Now she's an adult with a boyfriend she appears to want to please him all the time.

We've had a chat because I'm concerned at this change in her and am not wildly happy she seems to be turning in to a man pleaser.

My DS is autistic teen and whilst he doesn't like direct praise he does like to get approval to say he's doing the right thing.

EdnaAdaSmith - nearingthe 40 and lately I have been nearing the end of my tether. What is it about 40 that makes you do this ? Wish it was more of a 30 thing , I would have saved myself a decade of cheekyfuckery.
Ponoka7 I am disciplined with DS. He will just moan and srgue until I'm worn out.

Ponoka7 - yep, but then we know that the people describing us like that are wrong and a little bit pitiable due to being trapped in the silly game themselves, so - no fucks to give

It's such a pity it's so hard to instil this mentality in our daughters, but not only is it hard to overcome our own socialisation and unconscious, unthinking transmition of gender expectations when "on autopilot", socialisation also takes place largely outside the home once children are older...

The kids who's parents believe in and therefore unthinkingly strongly reinforce socialisation of gender stereotypes at home have no hope, poor things. Self fulfilling prophecies.

My DS is exactly as your DD is. Children have their own temperaments outside of sex. Plenty of girls disrupted lessons at school also - in my experience more so than the boys.

I definitely think it's how parents and society as a whole socialise them.

Actually one of the most disruptive pupils in my DS' primary school was a girl.

SistersOfMerci
I was straight with my now DH when we met.I wanted marriage and children and I was made out by his family that I was marriage mad andforced him into it. When he got a job with an international company ( I didn't know it was an International company) I was told that I'd planned it so we could move abroad.
I can't get my DH to buy a new sofa , let alone make hime move abroad.
My poor innocent DH hmm

My DD isn't a people pleaser, never has been. She toes the line when needed but generally cares less about what people think of her than DS.

Mine are both teens and have always been like this.

Could also be something to do with birth order - some interesting reading on how being eldest / middle / youngest impacts behaviour.

I do think society reinforces this passivness in girls. Why do we still waitfor proposals, its bizare. Just talk about it and if its what you both want, you agree to get married.

I think this sums it up well OP

No they both are reacting in an over the top way. Being constantly eager to please might keep you out of trouble at school but it will not go well elsewhere. Obviously reacting negatively to instructions and authority is pretty alarming too.
Be prepared for armchair diagnosis of asd add etc on here

Beesandcheese
ASD tested and results are borderline. Awaiting ADHD tests. My current armchair diagnosis is PDA. He has an Uncle who is very resistant to any demands made on him, but I am also thinking just personality (Genetics)

topsagain perhaps with your son ASD strategies would be helpful rather than concentration on him being male. If he didn't actually get a diagnosis perhaps you haven't gone far into researching what works best with children with ASD, but tbh some strategies are useful with most children with even mild ASD traits well short of a diagnosis threshold. Maybe have a google? Apologies if you already use ASD strategies.

As to why 40 - perhaps it's a critical mass of lived experience and realisation of how freeing it is not to care, and how the advantages we thought we gained by playing the people pleaser, feminine roles actually come with massive disadvantages and a "glass ceiling". Perhaps it's feeling a bit more secure wherever we are in life - at least compared to a decade or two earlier - and no longer feeling we have to prove anything. Perhaps it's also less important to us to "perform womanhood" as we near the end of reproductive age and in most (not all) cases have had all the babies we intend to have - whether that's none, one or more.

I don't actually know. Probably it's just a case of reaching a natural limit after 4 decades or so! Not everyone ever gets there, so it's not just hormonal changes - plenty of women are people pleasing and judging one another by how well they perform womanhood into their 80s ... Perhaps fewer and fewer though.

Society does also have different expectations of older women. Not trying to convince yourself (generic you, not you personally) everyone thinks you're still 29 helps ...

Beesandcheese she'd already mentioned the ASD testing, it's hardly an armchair diagnosis

topsagain if you believe your DS is pda then both you and the school will have to re-think the way you parent/teach.

SistersOfMerci yes, all currently doing all of that

EdnaAdaSmith Thanks, I moved DS to another school and thay are more on board. They suggested movement breaks and fifget toys.The problemis he knows he is being singled out with other kids who he knows are not normal (his words) And now he is self concious

Yes I do think females particularly are conditioned to please, not make a fuss, not cause a scene, not get dirty, take up less space etc etc
However the two most annoying people pleasers I know are both adult males so there can be cultural reasons and personality reasons.

topsagain movement breaks and fidget toys are very useful, but the root of demand avoidance in children with ASD and PDA is extreme anxiety. It doesn't really fit with the not caring you mention in your opening post. If your DS has PDA he's cripplingly anxious when demands are made on him, and unable to comply for that reason, rather than not caring.

Do you have a firm routine in place so the day runs automatically as far as possible to avoid voicing demands, offer choices (where either option is acceptable to you - "will you do homework now, or put your laundry away first?) to avoid making overt demands, and give instructions in an indirect way ("It's 7am DS! Breakfast is ready" Instead of "get up and come downstairs for breakfast now DS!") etc.

EdnaAdaSmith
Yes , I mean he doesn't care, as in he doesn't see the benefit of school work. Its more something people are making him do , and not for the benefit of him. Rather than a care free child, who isn't worried.
He is anxious, very much so. We do have a routine and we have to let him know in advance of any trips out, or he will refuse.
He also makes us sit with him to fall alsleep and later in the night will come into our bed.
Yes I have to parent him, such as "its breakast time, or breakfast first then....
His gran comes over and tells him off for any minor misdeamenor , which you can imagine how that goes, he actively dislikes her now.

Dd was incredibly well behaved at school especially in the early years

And a monster at home

I did speak to a professional about it and she said that it was because dd knew that whatever we did at home we would still love her and she knew that at school people wouldn’t like her

The strain of being perfect at school was causing her to misbehave so dreadfully at home

In her case she had calmed down quite a bit by the end of junior school...she still has her moments, she can be hard work but its much easier now

I had words with MIL and she doesn't do it anymore ( i.e telling him off for climbing on a small wall and walking along, or delaying getting his shoes on etc) All things I let slide.
I think it's going to be hard to get the teachers on board as I read PDA is not widely accepted yet.

topsagain there's a pda book written for teachers to give them guidance. It's available on Amazon, our school has a copy.

SistersOfMerci Thanks

In my experience with 3 sons and a daughter this is the case! And now I've thought about it me and my husband too.

Perhaps your children have just copied the model they were shown by their parents then.