AIBU because I don't know whether to sit on the fence or say it how I see it?

[Livingbynumbers]

I will need to change some details to avoid possibility of identifying anyone. I'm also going to tell it as it's been presented to me both by DD and by her partner.

My DD is 26. She was just diagnosed with ASC and I'm saying this because I think it's relevant to the predicament she is in and how it influences the situation. She is in her first relatiionship with a man she knows through work, and he is 8 years older. They have been together for 18 months but I only knew about him just under a year ago when I met him for the first time. I liked him immediatley and so did both DDs older brothers who are around his age BUT

He is still married, but separated, he says. Still in the family home whilst they try and figure a way to sell and settle fairly, as they have a DS who is still quite young and who hasn't been told by his parents that they don't love each other any more I can just see the disbelief on your faces as you read this. DD and man see each other alot, keep in frequent contact but he never stays over and she has never met his family; she doesn't think he has told his family about her but he says to me he has, including his STBX. He has met all of DDs family.

Recently DD confided in me she has become fed up, upset and angry because despite everything they've discused about a future togther there has been little action on his part in terms of walking the walk, as it were. Finally she ended it with him as she felt she couldn't trust him to be committed and it was hurting her. He tried hard to win her back and it was only when she told me the full story (from her perspective) and asked me to talk to him that I agreed as I wanted to smash his face in for upsetting her

He tells a really, really convincing story and one which rings true, he is very aware of my DD's social communication difficulties and tries, he says, to take that into account. He loves her, is absolutely committed to a future with her, has never felt so at home with anyone, never expected this to happen etc .He is stuck in a financial situation that he can't find an immediate way out of as he wants to ensure fairness in the division of the family assets. He can't afford to immediately walk away and start again with nothing and the current housing situation where they live is looking a bit precarious. He sees DD as his future, he still has much respect for his STBX, he wants to be there for his DS etc, he knows this is a very complicated situation and that DD is finding it very hard to see the bigger picture.

My view is that at 24 DD has alot of life experience to get under her belt and this man, lovely though he seems to be, is not available and could also be a very accomplished liar

I'm trying to focus on DD and not whether he is, or isn't, truly committed regardless of the back story. I want her to be happy, she's had an unbelievably hard time in the last couple of years; bereavements, work stress, a serious illness herself not long ago.

I've been in a relationship (a long time ago and I wasn't OW) where I was with someone who said all the right things but had feet of clay, I never really knew where I stood or if he meant what he said and used to feel very anxious and insecure about him. Even when he did eventually and under his own terms move his stuff in, it didn't feel right and I ended it because I couldn't trust his motives and we weren't as suited as we'd initially thought.

I don't know what to do what to do for the best other than to stay completely out of it and be there for DD if it all goes tits up. It's not easy trying to steer a course like this when DD is the age she is and has such little relationship experience.

if every time they meet they have a row, that doesnt sound good.
Please back her in her decision. whatever it may be.
Put yourself in her shoes, and in your experience, she would be far happier alone than unhappy still waiting for him to be available.
he is not availabe.

sounds like you are a great mum and fantastic support to your DD. This guy is a proven liar (social media) and Im pretty sure he is married married and your daughter is the affair.

I wouldn't trust him. Big red flags are waving around all over the place.
This bloke hasn't told his DW as after all this time (18 months is a long time) nothing has changed for him, from what has been written.
Your DD is right to move on . If it is meant to be then it will be BUT only after he has cleared the decks at his marital home.

Finally she ended it with him as she felt she couldn't trust him to be committed and it was hurting her. He tried hard to win her back and it was only when she told me the full story (from her perspective) and asked me to talk to him that I agreed

Jeez.
DD doesn't trust him, & has finished with him.
Why is he, & her mother, not paying attention?

Stop talking to this 34 year old married father about the potential to continue his unsuitable, going-nowhere relationship with your DD.
Start talking to DD about how proud you are of her good decision to cut her losses, & how you are going to support her choices in future.

You have done your DD a great disservice by allowing this man to manipulate your opinions even for a moment. How DARE he say she isn't seeing the bigger picture? She deserves to have a relationship on her own terms or send him packing if he won't. There is nothing at all he can say that makes that not the case and the language he has used is appalling. Using her ASC as a gaslighting tool is particularly low.

Besides which, obviously he's still in a relationship with his ex, so you should be delighted she's getting out of it. Frankly you should have helped her to see the truth a long time ago. I cannot imagine my parents not asking the challenging questions back at day 1 if I was introducing them to a man who actually lived with his wife!

All I can think is that you've had very dysfunctional relationships yourself that you're enabling your daughter being treated like this. You need to work on your own expectations and apologise that you let her down by not expecting better for her.

@MRex with respect I didn't know the situation until about 10 days ago.

And I haven't let her down. Not in the slightest. I've said everything that Posters have already said to her. And you are making a big assumption that I'm anything less than really concerned that she went out for the day with him. I can only advise her (which I did) but she doesn't have to take my advice.

Everyone, ASD or not, is vulnerable when it comes to men like this.

1. He's having an affair and his DW doesn't know.
2. He wants DD to pay for a flat for him so he can have a shagpad in town too.
3. If DD hesitates, he mocks her as SN to push his highly unpleasant demands.

Cuckoo! Get rid quick, DD has the sense to see it.

Let’s assume everything he says is true. It still isn’t working for her. It’s not her problem that he’s in a complicated financial situation - there are lots of men who aren’t. This is why when I was single I (eventually) wouldn’t date someone who was separated, even if they didn’t live with their estranged partner. Not her circus, not her monkeys. She deserves better.

He's still married. He wanted a cute little teenaged mistress with her own place and all his money securely in his pocket.

I'd actually suspect that your DD's landlord had this man's measure and that is why she's not been allowed to have him stay.

Congratulate her on her wisdom. Sympathise with her pain. But make sure the adulterous, lying scumbag doesn't get to hoover her back in.

I'm saying teenage, as your DD is in some ways as vulnerable as a young adult. He didn't pick a woman who was able to see through his shit or at least had a very effective bullshit detector and the confidence to act on it at the moment he said 'I'm married but can't move out'.

@Livingbynumbers - how can you claim you did not know about the situation? You knew about their relationship and it's never once come up for you to ask if he had kids or has been married before! Then you know all this and go to meet the man, let him tell you that your daughter's ASC is causing HIM problems! You don't need to be honest here, but at least have a word with yourself about why you haven't talked with her sooner.

I knew he'd been married but was 'separated'. I knew there was a DS. That came from DD. I didn't know what his living arrangments were, in fact I'd planned to ask her more about him becasue I realised I knew virtually nothing! I didn't know she hadn't met his family. I knew very little!

Up until a couple of weeks ago when I met DD for coffee and asked how it was all going she hadn't said they'd finished - and then would only tell me the circumstance that had made her end it (and I'm not going to go into that). That, and the dawning realisation of his lack of commitment and then doubt aobut his honesty was what made her tell me what is actually going on and then only in bits and pieces. She shuts down if I ask too many questions or try and talk too much - she gets overwhelmed. So I've had to be very careful and only talk if she seems open to it. I've already rung her , text her twice today and she's not responding.

The main issue you haven't recognised in your indignation is that you invalidated her decision and her faith in herself, at the very times when she most needed your validation to put up against his gaslighting. By meeting him you let her know that you agreed with him that she wasn't good enough to make her own mind up. That perhaps she isn't worth being treated how she wants to be because you need to check if her perception is good enough or if she's unreasonable. That was all very wrong.

She didn't and doesn't need you to make a decision, but for you to listen and support her coming to her own conclusions. You can guide without saying anything. You could have said things like "It sounds like you've got the measure of him and started to see things you don't like about this relationship.", rather than "I'll go and get the measure of him". "You deserve someone who will be part of your life in the way that you want, you should expect him to step up and not let him persuade you to accept less commitment than you want." "It's very sad and confusing when you come out of a long term relationship, but it sounds like you had good reasons for that decision. Do you want a hug? Do you want to talk about how you're feeling or just have a good long cry?" "Would you like to book a weekend away with me so you can try to get your head out of the situation and relax / cry / whatever you need? What kind of break would be best for you?"

For the last time - she asked me to speak to him.

I didn't tell her I was going to get the measure of him.

And (for the last time) I've also said all the other things you are telling me I "could" have said - over and over - except for the bits about having a long cry and going for a weekend because that's just not my DD at all. She is a closed book. And she doesn't know how to recognise what she feels so those kinds of questions are simply inappropriate and she wouldn't understand their meaning.

Anyway thanks to posters for the supportive words.

People do have complicated issues when separating and it can often take a very long time. It can and does cause difficulties to tell the spouse that you are leaving / planning to leave that you have another relationship.

The answer to all this is for the old relationship to be tied up and sorted before a new one begins. He needs to be honest and tell her that he is not free at present.

She needs to recognise that he is lying to the woman he is actually married to.

They need to stop the relationship.

And resume when and if he becomes free.

However genuine he is about his present feelings and future plans with your Dd, she can never have security or peace of mind because she can never actually know.

Meanwhile he gets to have his cake and eat it, and holds all the cards.

He has no business starting serious relationships he is in no position to honour.

Plus.... I had a friend who hung in for years with a man in this position: young children, house, blah blah. Actually I think he did care for her. But when he finally extricated himself from his marriage he was demob happy and not ready to go straight into another committed relationship, and ended up running off with someone else.

This man almost certainly does have feelings for your Dd, and intends to commit. Until he can, the honourable thing is to tell her he is not free to have a relationship.

Agree with most other posters have said, but why do you keep referring to his ex as STBX, which I understood to mean stupid bastard ex?

@Livingbynumbers - yes, but you needed to validate HER decisions by telling her there was no need, because your DD already knew best. Instead your action proved otherwise. You very explicitly above said you were meeting him to get the measure of him, so don't backtrack on that. If you are to help your DD then you need to recognise why you haven't helped this time and figure out how to do better.

And P.S OP, I think you are doing s good job of looking out for your Dd.

The lying and the suggesting that she provide a handy second home / place to conduct his affair for him are huge red flags.

@CassianAndor Soon To Be Ex