AIBU to give you an update re Church noise?

[alittlequinnie]

I am not sure if you remember my original thread but I asked people to let me know what would be considered reasonable in relation to noise levels of living next door to a Church.

The thread gathered pace and I left it just before we had a meeting with the Council, the Methodist Church members and the Seventh Day Adventist Members.

Just to let you all know that the meeting went ahead on Friday. The Methodist Minister didn't actually manage to get any representatives from the Seventh Day Adventists to the meeting - he said that he had been waiting for a letter from the Council before asking them. However, he sees them every single Saturday and the meeting has been booked for about 6 weeks so I am not sure why he found it so difficult to verbally tell them.

So there was just my DH and I, the Methodist Minister we deal with, the Council lady and one other Minister (higher up) from the Methodist Church.

Basically we all put our findings - which was mostly my DH and I because we are ones moaning.

There was no defence to the noise - just putting facts really. The Methodist Minister we speak with is a bit of a drip and didn't really have any solutions.

The Council however said that they were just here to fact gather and to see if a solution could be found through mediation.

She did mention that when there is a noise nuisance they usually monitor the property making the noise at the border. This means that any noise leakage at the border can be considered a nuisance.

Obviously the noise is leaking over their border, over our border and into our house so we feel cautiously optimistic that they are breaching "something".

The plan is as follows:

• We continue to monitor for another 6 weeks now the meeting has taken place to see if any improvement.

*We give a copy of our findings to the Methodist Minister every Sunday so that he can speak with the Seventh Day Adventists about the issues to see what he can do.

*Somebody from the SDA's to come over to our house and give us name and contact number so we can speak with them directly if there is a particular issue

• Review after 6 weeks.

First Saturday of the 6 weeks was the one just gone. Absolutely no improvement whatsoever - we could hear the lyrics of the hymns they were singing in our bedroom still.

Also we gave the copy of the noise diary to the Minister but nobody from SDA's came over to our house to give us contact details.

Will keep plugging at it but not sure how effective it is to have had the meeting when the SDA's were not there - so frustrating for the Methodist Minister not to manage to do this simple thing!

I'm going to now start to tackle the terrible parking to see if that helps the situation at all. I feel if there are less cars piled on the double yellows, pedestrian crossing, accross my garage and on the zig zag lines there may be less people milling around all together?

Who knows!

Where is the Methodist manse in relation to the church?
OP I think I would be inclined to make an appointment at my MPs surgery.

Interestingly since the first post I have had a complaint through my letterbox (I work for a church) about noise, from a neighbour that moved in 2 weeks ago. They complained that the choir were noisy (choir practice ends at 9pm) and that there's lots of cars in OUR car park aka they couldn't park their car illegally there, also moaned about the "concerts" every Sunday evening, it's called EVENSONG! I spoke to the council (it's a council house) who told me to file it under BIN. We have a noise limiter in the halls, a policy of events ending by 10pm and don't use amplification, the organ is 100 years old so no residents can complain it's new!

Juells it’s maddening, especially when it’s someone distressed.

You didn't read the original thread did you... Not the methodist service on a Sunday that is the problem but when they rent it out to the 7DA on a Saturday. Who only just started to rent the church a few years ago.

Ps the council parking enforcement team have given me a direct line number to report double yellow line parking, we have a major issue in my area

I hope this actually comes to a reasonable conclusion for you OP it sounds like an absolute nightmare.

As for the late night issues when the 7DA are leaving, would that possibly be counted as antisocial behaviour due to the time they're leaving? Sorry if that's already been suggested and it's only a small part of the much bigger issue - but if it falls into that category a police report might help?

I have never experienced your situation, my noise complaint when I lived in a different location was due to an antisocial neighbour playing music at early hours in the morning, outside his flat on full volume (he'd come out anywhere between 2am and 4am and stay out there as long as he liked). I started the ball rolling with the council's complaint procedure but it never really seemed to go anywhere until I started reporting it to the police via 101. I did make it clear that I wasn't asking them to come out as there was little they could do, but asked that they record it and provide me with reference numbers each time. When they added up to around 10 or so, the council took the complaint more seriously and followed the issue up more promptly than when I was just dealing with them (if that makes sense?).

I don't know if you've already tried this or if it will even help but wanted to mention it as a possibility. Good luck OP

I read your other thread, and was appalled. Just because someone is 'there first' (technically speaking the SDAs weren't) doesn't mean they can make others lives hell. So completely selfish.

If after the 6 weeks, you don't get a better outcome, would you consider going to social media or the papers? Post recordings of the noise and endless videos of them outside of your house. I seem to remember they can be out there at 5am shouting? None of the posters saying suck it up would accept this.

And blast out some Ace of Spades through a megaphone, when they are socialising infront of your front door.

@Skittlenommer you really didn't read the original thread... She moved and lived next to the church 11 years without any issue. It is since the 7da Church starting renting out the church that there has been noise issues.

More like someone living in peace for over a decade when suddenly a nightclub moves next door and uses your road as a car park.

Rtft

I would be sorely tempted to phone the Methodist minister every half-hour, and complain about the noise. I would also second the excellent advice to get onto your MP, and get her/him involved.

All the people who didnt bother to read the first thread, and just keep bleating about bells, BUGGER OFF!!

I would be sorely tempted to phone the Methodist minister every half-hour

Oooh! - YES!

Or better still, ring him at daft-o'clock in the morning, and hold the phone out the racket and ask him if he thinks that being woken up and kept awake at this hour is acceptable.

*to the racket

This is going to cause you a nightmare should you ever come to sell your house.

Where are the busses full of worshippers coming from? If it were me I’d be tempted to follow them home and set up loud speakers in front gardens.

I’d be willing to bet they ramp up the noise just to add to your distress knowing full well the council and church aren’t doing a thing.

This is a truly awful situation and I’m not surprised your mental health is suffering.

I'm another who initially thought "well what do you expect" as you moved there and it's perfectly normal to be able to hear church services from outside the building.

But this sounds so extreme and stressful. The issue is the useless Methodist minister as he's blocked any reasonable resolution at every step. The SDA have been making a racket for years with their landlord saying nothing to them and doing nothing about it. The only issue they see is just the occasional cross lady milling about telling people off (from their point of view, I don't actually think you're even a tiny bit unreasonable), so they just carry on - why wouldn't they? Neither the council, their landlord, or anyone higher up have actually pointed out that they are the problem. Neighbours can be moany and unreasonable so they probably tell themselves that that's what you are as someone else would have intervened otherwise. Minister should have stepped up at the beginning and made it clear that they couldn't have that kind of service in this building/location so tone it down or move on... So it's all on him that it's had to escalate this far. I bet he hates confrontation so does the 'easiest' thing every time (console you, make low level reassuring noises, never actually do anything about it).

It sounds like you can do something to get this sorted if you pull all the stops out with the various channels mentioned on here and don't lose your head.

Good luck! I hope you can get your Saturday's back.

One question - the noise levels that breach decibel thresholds - is that from the service or the crowds or both? If they end up limiting the service, will the hours of loud gatherings still be an issue that you can't fix as it won't be deemed bad enough?

You have GOT to be taking the mick, @Gromit78. “Blessed”?! And as for “can’t be controlled”, maybe the SDA could just NOT amplify the music??

I think it's a bit much to expect a church congregation to lower their noise levels. That can't really be controlled

Of course it can in this instance. All they have to do is turn the amplifiers off.

Good luck OP. There is some good advice above, sprinkled amongst those who choose not to read and understand your actual situation!

I nominate this thread for having the highest number of hard of thinking posters

I suspect the Methodist minister is deafened by the rent money. Perhaps he is stuffing pounds in his ears?

Less sarcastically, It wouldn’t surprise me if the rent money is needed to keep the church afloat. The minister is probably in a tough position.

That still doesn’t excuse the behavior the OP has described in the original thread. As soon as she detailed what was happening, I knew what kind of church it was going to be. There are some congregations that take the “joyful noise” passage very seriously. So seriously that they present a real nuisance to everyone in the area.

I'm sorry to be dramatic but surely this is torture?! This is your HOME for goodness sake. You've been more than reasonable for four years now, could you not go nuclear? Papers? Local MP? There must be something you can do beyond the useless council and Methodist guy.

I've been on church councils and complaints form neighbours about noise are fairly standard - but then we were also under obligation to take them seriously and to ensure we were being good neighbours.

It's fairly easy to weed out the reasonable vs unreasonable complaints, and it sounds like the Methodist Minister is being useless at dealing with this. To be fair, not everyone can have both the skills to be a good religious leader (e.g. be both teaching and pastoral care) and also the skills to run a reasonable size organisation with financial, building and HR issues AND deal with external issues. If it was the CofE I would suggest getting hold of the Church Wardens who often fill in a lot of organisational support. But if you are involving the Chair or Superintendent of the Methodist district, then it sounds like its gone beyond the dealing of the local (lay) Church Officers.

After 4 years I’d either be in court sharpish or be knocking on the door of no 10 with a petition. Oh maybe not no 10 right now, eh - I think they may be a bit busy and in a fluster ! ?

Try contacting the SDA head office in St.Albans. Contact details here

I lurked on your first thread. I'm shocked at the attitude from both churches.

Write to your MP. Talk to a solicitor.

Good luck.

This is their complaints procedure from their website. It tells them how to submit complaints, but I suppose it gives some idea of who/what level etc they want things done. I hope that if you follow their own procedure you might at least get an acknowledgement.

adventist.uk/fileadmin/shared-data/resources/executive-secretary/BUC-Policy-Section-09-Complaints-Procedure-2018-06.pdf

I agree I'd go nuclear at this point. Rent an amp. Amplify the most obscene music at a higher volume than them during every single service. Turn the hose on them when they're outside your garden- let them call the police, nothing much would happen, you might just get a caution. At least someone would have to listen to you! Invite your local hell's angels round for a BBQ during their services, get them to block the roads with their motorbikes.
You need to make it absolutely intolerable for them.