AIBU to give you an update re Church noise?

[alittlequinnie]

I am not sure if you remember my original thread but I asked people to let me know what would be considered reasonable in relation to noise levels of living next door to a Church.

The thread gathered pace and I left it just before we had a meeting with the Council, the Methodist Church members and the Seventh Day Adventist Members.

Just to let you all know that the meeting went ahead on Friday. The Methodist Minister didn't actually manage to get any representatives from the Seventh Day Adventists to the meeting - he said that he had been waiting for a letter from the Council before asking them. However, he sees them every single Saturday and the meeting has been booked for about 6 weeks so I am not sure why he found it so difficult to verbally tell them.

So there was just my DH and I, the Methodist Minister we deal with, the Council lady and one other Minister (higher up) from the Methodist Church.

Basically we all put our findings - which was mostly my DH and I because we are ones moaning.

There was no defence to the noise - just putting facts really. The Methodist Minister we speak with is a bit of a drip and didn't really have any solutions.

The Council however said that they were just here to fact gather and to see if a solution could be found through mediation.

She did mention that when there is a noise nuisance they usually monitor the property making the noise at the border. This means that any noise leakage at the border can be considered a nuisance.

Obviously the noise is leaking over their border, over our border and into our house so we feel cautiously optimistic that they are breaching "something".

The plan is as follows:

• We continue to monitor for another 6 weeks now the meeting has taken place to see if any improvement.

*We give a copy of our findings to the Methodist Minister every Sunday so that he can speak with the Seventh Day Adventists about the issues to see what he can do.

*Somebody from the SDA's to come over to our house and give us name and contact number so we can speak with them directly if there is a particular issue

• Review after 6 weeks.

First Saturday of the 6 weeks was the one just gone. Absolutely no improvement whatsoever - we could hear the lyrics of the hymns they were singing in our bedroom still.

Also we gave the copy of the noise diary to the Minister but nobody from SDA's came over to our house to give us contact details.

Will keep plugging at it but not sure how effective it is to have had the meeting when the SDA's were not there - so frustrating for the Methodist Minister not to manage to do this simple thing!

I'm going to now start to tackle the terrible parking to see if that helps the situation at all. I feel if there are less cars piled on the double yellows, pedestrian crossing, accross my garage and on the zig zag lines there may be less people milling around all together?

Who knows!

And wouldn’t be twirping about church bells if groups of people were singing so loud you could hear it in your house all day and standing talking outside your house at 10pm

^^ This. Plus I love the word 'twirping'

I sympathise OP, it's not only the noise nuisance at the time that is devastating, but it is the anticipation and build up that is stressful, knowing that unless you leave your home for a length of time you are going to be assailed by noise you don't like or want. Unless you have experienced it you can not appreciate how awful it is, all I can say is remember how the CIA played loud rock music at the prisoners in Guantanamo, obviously not the same, but illustrates the point that it is well known that persistent loud noises can affect your mental wellbeing negatively .

Ours was neighbours who held very loud karaoke sessions every Sunday afternoon for about four hours. In the end the lovely noise abatement person came round, sat in my sitting room for an hour and wrote down the name of every song played and measured the decibel level. He then wrote to the neighbours and told them if it happened again the council would remove their karaoke equipment and serve them with a nuisance order. All stopped immediately.

Not nearly on the same level as yours OP but I do know how awful it is to have people so dismissive of your right to peace in your own home because of their selfish behaviour.

Oh op. I really hoped that you had a better meeting but at least it is something. I agree with going to your mp and any higher ups in the methodist church to try and help speed things up.

Hopefully the council will see that you are dealing with unreasonable levels of noise and take action.

who is responsible for monitoring the double yellow lines etc. if it is the council, tell them there is money to be earned there.

Sounds as if living next to this particular church with those particular church goers is more aking to living next to a concert hall. Its also a modern church. At least the council is doing something.

I can never figure out why so many churchy people equate godliness with driving en masse and parking all over grass verges.

I feel for you in this situation .The trouble here is the Council will probably be unwilling to "rock the boat " as it were .Where did they go before the Methodist Church rented it out I wonder?.Could you speak to the Methodist Church at a higher level do you think?.Some people have services at their homes ,maybe you could suggest that at another meeting?People in the congregation taking it in turns to host?.I hope you get something sorted out .After all "Love thy Neighbour" springs to mind!

I've just skim read both threads and spoken to Dear Mama who is a Steward of a Methodist Church (their equivalent of a Churchwarden). She says that as far as pushing the Minister to take action you should:

1. Write to the Church Stewards outlining the various complaints that you have made to the Minister over the past 4 years, complain that he has not at any point taken them seriously and ask to attend a meeting of the Church Council (their equivalent of a PCC which administers the practical running of the Church). At that meeting - ideally attended also by your neighbours - you can re-present all of your complaints, tell them what a living hell they have made your Saturdays, get your neighbour to explain that she has had to give up her teaching on a Saturday and explain that you find the Minister's rejection and inaction on all of your complaints quite unacceptable. Present this as a last chance for the Church to put things right before you follow up legal challenges. Most members of Methodist Church Councils are very committed Christians and should be pretty horrified by what you are having to put up with.
2. Make a formal complaint about the Minister to the Chair of the District to which the Church belongs - this should be over his inaction to deal with the ongoing nuisance. State that over the past four years you have repeatedly asked him to step in and deal with the problem or let you know who to contact at the SDA and that he has persistently refused to take effective action. You can find out which District your church is in here

www.methodist.org.uk/about-us/the-methodist-church/structure/the-district/

If the District website doesn't give contact details for the District Chair (not all do) then you can contact Methodist HQ - details here www.methodist.org.uk/contact-us/ and ask them for it.

1. Go and see your local Councillor at one of their surgeries, (details will be on the Council website under Councillors) take the records you have of your complaints and the fact that the noise nuisance team have not investigated in over 4 years. Ideally get your neighbour to come too. Tell the Councillor that you are are about to involve the Ombudsman and ask for their help for one last chance to get the Council to take their statutory duties properly and investigate properly. Suggest a time limit of 30 days after which you will go to the Ombudsman. Refuse offers of mediation as the time for that has passed.
2. Make an appointment to see your MP and explain the situation to them and ask for their help.

Beyond that, I would video any aggressive or anti social behaviour on your phone and show it to the Councillor/MP as evidence that mediation is not appropriate. (I'd include poor parking, noisy gatherings in the street, children running around unsupervised etc etc as well as the plain aggression you have experienced.)

Good luck.

OP I've just read your posts on your original thread - oh my God. I can't believe you've been putting up with this every Saturday for FOUR YEARS. I would have committed murder by now. We had a household recently thumping ear-splitting music out into everyone's gardens when they were having a party, spoiling a beautiful sunny Easter Sunday for about 15-20 gardens (and many, many more households in upper flats besides, as you could easily hear it even with windows closed) and I was incandescent - I had the council round to tell them to knock it off, and climbed on top of some garages at the end of our garden so I could see into their garden, and stood there waving my arms around and bellowing at them

I would have been posting videos online a long time ago to pressurise the church / council into doing something. You have the patience of a saint. (And you'll be canonised long before these inconsiderate cunts )

@Londonmummy66 - that's all really good advice, but the OP has had this advice before. I hope having started a second thread she can take it up now.

Maybe you could become a Methodist and go to services at the church ?

Count your blessings. I live next to a railway line and the trains whizz pass my window and are very loud! Didn't think it would bother me as much as it does. I hope I can move in next few months. At least you have lovely prayerful hymns leaking through your walls, maybe your house is being blessed?

However, I also over heard my neighbours have intercourse the other night ad that was quite awkward for me, so I understand how frustrating it is to have poor sound proofing in your house.

I think it's a bit much to expect a church congregation to lower their noise levels. That can't really be controlled. However, I hope you can sort out good sounding proving in your home or find a better place to live for you.
Wishing you all the best.

How would that help?

It's the SDAs not the Methodists that are causing the problem.

the Council have all the history of the various complaints over the last four years ... they had all been closed as there had been no further issues after 4 weeks (?!)

the Council lady did not have a note of (the neighbour's) complaint and did not invite them to the meeting

I'm so sorry to be discouraging, quinnie, but you're being played. There's no doubt in my mind that SDAs and Council will take advantage of there being so few neighbours to complain, and that the nature of the church will play a part in their resistance to any real action

I've seen this type of Council intransigence so many times, and frankly I'd be consulting a solicitor by now. If you wish to stay living there it could well be the only way you'll ever get anything done

@WhyBirdStop I had the same experience as the OP. The licenced premises up the road we frequented required everyone inside by 9pm and no amplified music that could be heard outside. Many signs and requirements to move on quickly and quietly if you left after hours

Yet the bloody church over the road which, when we moved in, was a factory setting CoE church, suddenly embraced Baptists and SDA. Then was able to have screeching every Saturday morning for hours, amplified music at night and screeching and music every Sunday night until 11pm folllowed by two hours of mingling outside.

Churches should not get any free pass compared to a pub. OP I've said before. I've compared noisy churches to licenced premises before to the council and that seems to trigger an immediate shutdown

You can't be the only one OP! What are the other neighbours saying?

From what I recall Nissan it is a tiny street with only two houses. The other occupants are in a state of deep depression about the racket, and are distressed that their adult daughter has nowhere to park, but they are elderly and don't have the energy to complain - and they are afraid of repercussions. OP has been accused of being racist as most of the congregation are black, and have thrown this accusation at her.

6 weeks? The council are taking the piss.

THE council sound like they have failed you here-four years of complaints and they say they were all closed?

Id go higher in the council its just not good enough to be fobbed off for this long

OP, love the diagram! What is across the main road from your house? I'm just wondering whether you have a further allie in tackling this.

@sayoolala, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

OP, you can't be the only ones affected (plus neighbour). What about the neighbour whose terrace backs onto your house? Can you pop round and ask if they can hear? What about on the other side of the church, who lives there? If the issue is numbers, you need to get more on your side.

You moved next door to a church. You’re the type of people who move next door to a music venue and then have it shut down because it’s noisy.

Anyone else really fed up with the Hard of Comprehension people about these days?

Please, if you don't know what's going on/haven't read the thread, don't comment just to put the boot in!

I wondering if people think it’s funny to do it Nanny0gg

@Katiepoes exactly they have to turn off the music at midnight, a lot of this is going on long before any noise restrictions kick in. Anything after 11pm is fair game for complaint, but during the day/evenin people are free to make noise, if it's above a certain level (much louder than you would think), and is detected as such by the council's detection equipment they may have to moderate it. People talking laughing etc won't fall foul of the legislation/guidance. I have experience of these scenarios and supported clients through the same process the OP is going through (not churches though). I'm not saying it's pleasant to live near, and the parking should be dealt with, but pre 11pm noise is very difficult to do much about, licensed premises are actually held to higher accountability because it can jeopardise their alcohol on trade license or any renewal applications. A church doesn't have that to lose.

could be, Herocomplex. Can't think of another explanation, apart from Hard of Comprehension

A church doesn't have that to lose.

That's why I'd make sure the Methodist minister suffered every time I was kept awake.