When as a baby to expect to be responded to by my parents?

[BooseysMom]

Just reading a rather upsetting book DH got me for Mother's Day called 'The Book you wish your Parents had read' by Philippa Perry, a psychotherapist married to the artist Grayson Perry.

One chapter on pregnancy covers attachment parenting and the different versions of this. I'll try to keep it as brief as i can .. basically it's saying if as a baby you were left to 'cry it out' you are likely going to develop neurosis in later life and have a negative outlook and life experiences and not be able to form relationships easily ... all because as a baby your needs were not met and you were left to cry for hours. This really got to me and left me wondering whether my late DM left me for hours which is why i tend to be anxious and find it hard to be positive. I clearly remember her telling me to ignore DS when he was just 6 weeks old! I was utterly flabbergasted .. how can a tiny baby be left to cry? Of course she was the one i ignored! Last night was bad and during my regular insomnia i just kept going over it in my head. I mean, in the old days the advice was to leave babies to cry ..so surely that means most of our generation are in some way screwed up?!
What do you think? Is this woman right to state this? Should i just step away from the book now?!

There is a lot of junk science around this. Kids do best if parents respond to their needs. Leaving a baby to cry sometimes will not do any harm. If you generally ignore a bay, and toddler and child, then yes it will affect them.

Big difference between "being left to cry for hours" and being left to fuss/grumble for a few minutes before you drop off to sleep.

It could be a factor - but there are so many theories/studies saying so many different things it can really be hard to tell.

I've been reading a book recently that says that studies have shown babies who have mothers who are anxious during pregnancy (specifically the early stages) are more likely to be diagnosed with anxiety and/or depression when they're older. It also says that a mother who is undernourished in some way (even in the first few weeks of pregnancy) is more likely to have a baby that's overweight in later life.
Whilst interesting and the science behind it is fascinating, it's all just theory and i'm sure other studies will show the exact opposite. Just do what feels right for you and your baby - you may never know the answers to your questions about your own upbringing so try not to worry about it (easier said than done, I know)

You could equally argue that those whose parents dont let them cry are leaving them not being able to cope with upset in later life and grow up expecting people to run round after them the first time them look sad. Also cry it out doesn't mean leave them to cry for hours!

Loads of mums leave a baby to cry so they can have a shower or get something to eat.
OP was your mum generally unresponsive to your needs?
Although with anxiety that seems to be more common in people who were oevrprotected.

@LisaSimpsonsbff Yes, you're absolutely right. We've been able to take our parenting cues from her from the start so we have always been quite relaxed and confident as we've had the luxury to be so. My friend, understandably, has been a bit more worried because of the crying and gets anxious about taking him new places because she's worried about his reaction, so it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. As you say, I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle, and if you have a more sensitive baby to start with, it's much more difficult to parent in that kind of easy going and relaxed manner.

TBH it sounds like a lot more words around the same concept Larkin put so succinctly:

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

I think it's never as simple as 'if you do/don't do X, your child will be anxious' - MH is very complex. My severe anxiety was compounded by some stuff at home but was actually a result of horrendous bullying as a teen, but I know my cold/unaffectionate Dad didn't help. My mum was the primary carer and is a big cuddler, and never left us to cry it out as far as I can remember.

However what you can take from this book, if you have or are having children, is the bits that resonate with you and you want to take forward. No one book on parenting or child rearing will ever say everything you think and feel and agree with 100%. I found the book really useful, and I hope it enables me to be the parent I want to be.

Sorry it's had an effect on you OP.

i don’t know whether it’s true but I’d never risk it tbh.. I’ve never left DD to cry to more than a minute or so. I hate that society tells us babies should be sleeping through the night etc. and we need to ‘train’ then. I think if we were all more realistic and understood better why babies wake (teething, learning to crawl/ walk etc) it would be far easier to cope with. DD woke up every few hours till 11 months and then when she was ready she slept through. I’m so glad I ignored all the ‘cry it out’ or ‘give up breastfeeding’ advice.

I have bought this book but I’ve only got in a few pages so might skip to see what it says!

Hi OP

She is making a claim that in my opinion needs to be backed up by medical evidence I.e. proper scientific studies rather than anecdotal evidence. As far as I'm aware 'psychotherapists' dont need to be qualified, anyone can call themselves one (though clearly some people with a degree in psychology etc may become one but similarly someone that's taken an online course may become one) so I'd be wanting to look into her training and background and what she is basing these statements on, before taking any notice of them

There is also a difference isn't there between leaving a 6 week old to cry when they are scared or hungry and a 10 month old when they just dont want to go to bed! So I think it needs to be more specific (eg leaving a baby less than 6 months old to cry for more than 15 minutes more than one a night may show a link to xyz)

A lot of people in this argument quote Romanian orphanages where children were left to cry and didn't develop properly. This is completely incomparable as they weren't shown any love affection or held, played with etc even when awake - it was complete neglect and not comparable to an otherwise loving parent who needs to do a bit of sleep training for their own sanity

I did attachment parenting, fed on demand, co-slept for years and years (til DD was around 12 YEARS old), and frankly, can't say it's made an iota of difference to her. I think you either have an anxious personality or you don't.

Whatever parents do is going to be wrong. And given the huge levels of anxiety in young people, which seems to correlate with the trend in attachment parenting 15 - 20 years ago, I can't see there's necessarily any impact in parenting styles and mental healt (save for obvious abuse).

As far as I know, there is no definitive evidence that leaving babies to cry causes damage, as long as their needs are met in general. So if the book does actually say that it will likely cause problems, then this is not supported by evidence and she shouldn't be saying it.

Fwiw, my parents co-slept and by all accounts responded to my every whimper at all hours of the day and night. Yet I had severe separation anxiety throughout my childhood and general anxiety and depression until my mid twenties.

Attachment is the key aspect in feeling safe in childhood. It doesn’t have to be the mother. Babies whose needs are not met will not thrive.

I hate that society tells us babies should be sleeping through the night etc. and we need to ‘train’ then

The problem is that a lot of women have to go back to work to be able to afford children in the first place in our society. And waking up 6+ times a night when you're also working full time isn't really sustainable without some of the plates you are spinning falling to the floor or without you becoming unwell.

Sleep training is way more popular in the US because women have such poor maternity leave – most of them are back at work within weeks. So it's a necessary 'evil' for many as the alternative is probably much worse than a few nights of crying.

Biologically, babies are designed to wake frequently. Practically, our society isn't really set up to cope with that for any sustained period.

Try not to worry OP...it's one book. There are also studies that argue the opposite and infact many more that argue there is no impact at all...

www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/controlled-crying-safe-for-babies/

Some children and adults suffer with anxiety, just as children and adults suffer with depression, eating disorders and an array of other issues that could easily be blamed on a single parenting choice. The truth is far more likely to be that there are a whole range of factors that influence this sort of thing.

Put the book down OP

I don't know, dc, dh, myself, my dm, dsis and db all have anxiety to varying degrees. I know my parents did their best and I'm doing the best for my dc. I'd say the issue of anxiety is more complex than just one thing.

(And of course dads should be waking up too. But in a lot of cases, mum has been the one doing the bulk of overnights during maternity leave and it's difficult to then change the habit of nine months when you've got an already upset baby and you both have to get up for a full day ofwork in a few hours' time).

Attachment is the key aspect in feeling safe in childhood. It doesn’t have to be the mother. Babies whose needs are not met will not thrive.

I was born, along with 5 siblings, into a life of neglect, violence and abuse. Definitely no attachment. Then we were moved into the care system, not a whole lot of love or attachment there either. Very many of the children I grew up with (over 100 places in the home), and including myself and my siblings, thrived perfectly well and are very happy, well adjusted adults.

Of course, some won't but that is not the default position.

Reallybad overly attentive parents can make children anxious as well. If you’re not allowed to explore and separate from them you learn not to trust your instincts.
Separation anxiety is a terrible feeling, that awful dread and sadness. I’m so sorry you experience that.

Our kids will probably look back on how on earth we did attachment parenting. I don't know what will be criticised about it - too hard on mothers' mental health? Lack of independence? I dunno, but you can be sure the fashion will have changed and they'll be judging us.

I was definitely left to cry but my mother was a fantastic mother and I couldn't have wanted for more from her. If I read that chapter I suspect I'd roll my eyes and move on. The fact that you took it to heart maybe means you already had some of those feelings because of other events when you were older.

I’m really glad to hear that nokidshere, you’ve made a success of your life despite a difficult start.

I was left to cry but am fairly positive with good relationships I think!
I wouldn't leave my own kids though.

Attachment and attachment parenting are not the same thing.

Although Phillippa Perry is very talented, she is not a historian of child care. The person who advocated leaving children in the garden on very strict timetables was Dr Edmund Truby King who actually died in 1938. The popularity of Dr Spock (and to a lesser extent Donald Winnicot) in the 1960s was partly because they contradicted this advice and very much concentrated on parental common sense and instinct.

Obviously you have not posted your age (and don’t need to) but do you think those ideas about leaving babies alone were advocated many years before you were born?

I think the fact that your mother is no longer alive is adding to your worry because you can’t check with her what she actually did. Apparently Dr Spock’s book was one of the best selling books of all time but even so there would have been millions of parents who stuck to their own ideas and did not follow the ideas about parenting that were popular at the time.

The posters who point out that most of the information on brain development and neglect comes from Romanian orphanages are right too.

I’ve not read the book myself and I am sure that lots of it is helpful but it sounds from what you say that the history is a bit wobbly.