To tell you why I voted to leave

[readingreadingreading]

I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.

I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.

I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.

I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.

I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.

No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.

I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.

I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.

I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.

And of course Northern Ireland never even got a mention in your thoughts which goes to show how considered all really wasnt

Hear hear OP

I am still waiting for the positive reasons ( more than 5/6) to remain 8 pages in and not one answer.

We keep Freedom of Movement - can work/ive/retire in 27 other countries
We don't crash our economy
We can get hold of the food and medicine we need
Less chance of a war
Better for business
We don't become a tax haven
We stay somewhere people wan't to come and live/work
The NHShas a better chance of staying afloat
It will piss a lot of nasty, racist people off

I am still waiting for the positive reasons ( more than 5/6) to remain 8 pages in and not one answer.

Remainers gave up explaining a couple of years ago when it became apparent many Leave voters had no idea what they were talking about.

While Brexit seems very difficult I find it hard to believe that remainers do not understand that some parts of EU bureaucracy are wasteful, constantly moving staff offices and MEP's from Brussels to Strasbourg then back again every few weeks is a huge unnecessary expense

Of course its a shocking waste of money BUT you have to take things in the round, is leaving the EU worth, say Airbus moving production Toulouse? that alone would cost the UK many times what the EU moving offices does,

My friend exports to 17 EU countries (41 worldwide, most through EU trade deals) they can sell into Rome or Stockholm as easily as they can to Manchester or Glasgow,

They and 1000s of other businesses will lose that when we leave.

Its not as if UK bureaucracy is perfect is it?

Because then we would never ever have to utter the word Brexit again Greenpeace , think that's a winner for at least 98% of the population of the UK at the moment

The current crop of MPs are on their way out, there is no working majority anymore. An election will happen very soon, and when it does things will look very very different chicken

No-one could have predicted (although perhaps the past history of the EU should have led us to expect their intransigence) how the EU would expect us to give away so much

I don't understand comments like this. The EU have given us plenty of extensions. In what way has the EU been intransigent regarding Brexit? What have they been unreasonable to expect us to give away?

One doesn’t hear the Leavers whining about the unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall much...

I appreciate your points.

I don't get the immigration issue though. Even if we leave the EU we will still get immigration from outside the EU so people who voted leave because there are too many foreign people here aren't really getting what they want. Those people on the news in boats trying to cross the channel are from outside the EU. Plus, I think most of the people from EU countries are already here.

@TatianaLarina, NO, I didn't, but I would concede your second point about learning languages. As English is the 21st century's universal language, American hegemony etc., which language would you learn? Spanish, or Cantonese or Arabic are all more widely used globally than any language... other than English.

You are unforgivable naive. Not to mention ignorant of the Northern Ireland issue. I miss the days when Freddo bars were 10p, but I'm bright enough to know that those days are gone.

And the public could turn its steely glare back in the direction of all those people who ARE responsible for the health, wealth and security of the inhabitants of the UK, which would be our democratically elected Government.

What did I dislike about the Maastricht treaty? It totally undermines our sovereignty as a country. So, from examples upthread, we like the laws on employment rights but suffer from the rulings on fisheries but don't have a choice on either.

I still don't understand why there should be a medicines shortage. Will Europe refuse to sell them to us, or will refuse to let them enter the country or will they just be caught in border delays? It must be possible for our Government to rule that medical imports are allowed, without further checking at our borders, and with priority, until x date. I'm sure someone will very shortly explain why I'm wrong.

Thank you to everyone who has responded positively, and those that disagree but are willing to discuss.

@XingMing

You wrote:

"Because the European Council is a self-appointing set of functionaries who appoint each other on the basis of Buggins Turn in the chair."

The European Council is not the European Commission. Anyone who knows anything about the EU knows this.

You voted Leave Xing you said.

Which language would I learn? Several thanks.

It saddens me that posters on here can't resist the mud slinging. It would be lovely to have a debate where posters don't get personal!

I asked for positive reasons and you have given a list of negatives again. You can’t use negative predications as positive reasons sunny

Your Negatives:
Crash economy
Food and medicine
People wanting to work here
Lose nhs (?!)
War
Loss of business
Annoy racists (?!)

Every single thing is a double negative.

Your positives:

Travel and retire in EU

That’s the only one. I can categorically confirm to you that you will still travel and retire in Europe after Brexit!

Your whole viewpoint is based on two things;

FEAR and pessimism

I had no thoughts on the Irish backstop, it never occurred to me that it would become the issue it has and I'm sure I'm not alone. I still think, that if we had goodwill on both sides it couldn't be sorted

For this alone you are vv unreasonable

^ Agree with this poster, Pallisers and the many posters reminding OP of the part of the UK that voted Remain whose lives are going to be most directly affected... NI. Beyond having to show your passport when you pop to the shops or visit your mum/whatever (not a big deal right 🙄) , so many livelihoods as well as food production will be hugely disrupted if there is no backstop. And yeah, the peace process for gods sake.
All the talk about numbers, yeah England has a bigger population so basically Scotland and NI voting overwhelmingly to remain gets ignored. ‘United’ kingdom.

It’d be different if this was LittleEnglandExit, but it isn’t. Show some bloody consideration to the rest of the UK.

No-one could have predicted (although perhaps the past history of the EU should have led us to expect their intransigence) how the EU would expect us to give away so much

What you mean is 'we didn't realise that we couldn't keep all the benefits of being in the EU'

I speak several, French best, as it was taught at school and I did an A level. Also German to O level, and Latin, so I can just about read Spanish and Italian.

I voted Remain but am happy to abide by the referendum decision to leave. I respect your points OP, and particularly the point you make about the EU being much bigger than when the UK joined. The decision to admit the Eastern European member states and to do so via the accelerated joining procedure was very controversial and its changed the nature of the EU drastically.

If anyone has ever been to the EU courts in Luxembourg (there are two) you will know how prosperous Luxembourg has become due to the EU. There are a lot of people in that part of the world who have accrued massive wealth due to EU institutions and their workforce being situated there. The UK sees none of that wealth. The other institutions are of course in Strasbourg and Brussels.

The Court of Justice of the EU of course also insists on conducting all of its business in its official language of French. This means that British people (who generally don't speak French well enough to get jobs there) are very under-represented at the Court. It also doesn't have a proper system of judicial precedent as we recognise it, which makes decisions hard to predict and can lead to legal uncertainty, which costs businesses time and money when they get it wrong.

So OP many of your concerns, which are actually fairly instinctive, are based on sound judgment. And I voted Remain.

I don't think you quite grasp the British fishing industry and how danaged it will be by having huge barriers to accessing 40% of its market.

cyberworrier spot on.