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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About current tenant's request

271 replies

Neonpotato · 04/09/2019 17:26

Name change as outing.

We have a tenant in our 2 bed flat currently, she seems nice.
Our letting agency has told us that apparently our tenant's friend's son is coming over from overseas to study, and she has asked whether it's ok for him to live in the flat. The agency has checked with insurance and it's fine, and it's not considered subletting as she will continue to pay rent and has full responsibility of the flat.

Can I say no? We specified at the very beginning that no students are allowed. I guess it's not so bad if she also lives there but I don't know how long he will be there for, and worry that he will stay on even if she leaves at some point.
It was good of her to ask and I don't want to be a difficult landlord but we don't really want students. Happy to be told that IABU though.

OP posts:
NoBaggyPants · 04/09/2019 18:21

What does the contract say about lodgers?

NotJust3SmallWords · 04/09/2019 18:21

It would depend on the terms of your tenancy agreement so ask the letting agent to advise you on that.

Even if you say no you may have no right to prevent her from having someone stay if it doesn't count as sub-letting. Like you say it was nice of her to ask and you might not legally have the right to stop her anyway.

chicaguapa · 04/09/2019 18:22

Can't you just review it at the end of the fixed tenancy period and see how it's going before renewing it? I'm a LL and I don't think I'd have a problem with this tbh. The fact that she's asked you suggests she's going to be responsible about it.

mumwon · 04/09/2019 18:25

its subletting there is no way she would let a "friend's" son who you do not know stay for indefinite time for nothing.I am cynical -I am sure that your lease states no sub letting - how would you get him out if she leaves/dies? you need to speak to her directly & check your lease/insurance/landlords mortgage. This is not the same as having her own son or a new partner & technically even then she should talk to you & you would need a signature from him to state that he will leave if she does. May I suggest you look up one of the landlord sites & talk to your insurance? Residential Landlord Association for example - I recommend joining one of them they are tax deductible & give free advice for members & help give good advice & help update you on changes in the law

Pipandmum · 04/09/2019 18:25

I have a two bed that rents for £1500/month and it’s usually foreign students. They sign six month leases and generally stay for two years. Never had a problem.
I think there is a difference between a ‘no students’ if it was just students living there, but as it’s an older person who is responsible for the rent and condition of the flat it’s on her to make sure the student keeps to the terms of the lease.
And as the tenancy is with her he shouldn’t be able to stay on without her. If she gives notice to quit he moves too. He can’t take over her lease without your agreement.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/09/2019 18:26

Ah, my mistake - OP didn't actually say where the mum lives and I hadn't assumed she's abroad too

Still wouldn't be too keen, though, for all the reasons said. The mum being decent enough to ask guarantees nothing behaviour-wise, and if there were problems the tenant might or might not be comfortable confronting a friend's son

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/09/2019 18:26

Well, that's another of the consequences to the recent changes in letting laws. more and more landlords are more and more reticent to just let things slide, be nice, see no harm.

OP has let her property to a single person; checks have been carried out on that person; decisions made on the results of those checks; the young man is not family; he isn't visiting.

In law there are possible problems for OP if he moves in, some have been outlined here. OP could turn a blind eye and keep her fingers crossed, trust in her tenant. But the difficulties may seem to be too much for OP and she could and should say no, if that is the case.

And remembr to thank Shelter and Labour when you next have a similar issue when trying to rent... they have almost succeeded in swinging the pendulum so far in favour of the tenant that many landlords are only taking 'Triple A' tenants these days. Wait until they abolish Section 21!

Bookworm4 · 04/09/2019 18:27

What if she’d said nothing? Would you have told her she can’t have visitors? Your tenant; who pays you a substantial rent; had the courtesy to ask.

MerdedeBrexit · 04/09/2019 18:29

How in hell would he have rights to stay there if she leaves if he’s not paying OP rent or onthe tenancy sgreement?

SarahAndQuack · 04/09/2019 18:30

But having the courtesy to ask also means, presumably, having the courtesy to accept a 'no'.

It's a pretty empty courtesy if she wasn't willing to hear that!

Malvinaa81 · 04/09/2019 18:30

Don't allow this under any circumstances.

The legal consequences (and financial ones) could be serious for you.

QualCheckBot · 04/09/2019 18:31

I can virtually guarantee that on here you will read some nonsense about her renting the whole flat and being allowed to move in whoever she wishes.

That is not correct. Obligations under a contract (which there are in a lease) cannot be assigned as they are delectus personae - dependent upon one identified person.

As for it not being sub-letting - on what basis would the friend's son live in your flat? Either he is added to the existing lease, which requires your consent, or he sublets from the tenant (which your lease hopefully prevents). He cannot just move in on no legal basis. He might then acquire an assured tenancy if you did not object.

You will also have additional costs in terms of wear and tear if one tenant becomes two, and its likely that a two person flat rents for more than a one person flat in your area. You will probably want to increase the rent if another person moves in.

But it sounds like he does not meet your letting criteria, and no references, credit checks, deposit provision, etc have been done. If he moves in without your permission, not only are you entitled to ask him to leave but you are entitled to evict your tenant for being in breach of contract, and to sue her for any out of pocket expenses you may have.

Your letting agency is very misinformed on this and taking the line of least resistance.

This would make a great question for a contract/law of leases exam!

GammaStingRay · 04/09/2019 18:32

Why are people implying that the tenant is doing OP some kind of favour in asking?

The ‘she was courteous enough to ask’ statements are quite odd, she is almost certainly legally bound to ask, she signed a tenancy agreement to rent OP’s property that presumably she was happy enough to abide by. It’s not courtesy to ask, it’s necessary?

scoobydoo1971 · 04/09/2019 18:33

Depending on where the flat is located and the nationality of the prospective occupant, it may be worth checking out the 'Right to Rent' regulations set out by the Home Office concerning immigration checks. If you decided to let the student stay, it may be a requirement for yourself or your tenant to do ID checks. The info is here: www.gov.uk/government/collections/landlords-immigration-right-to-rent-checks

MerdedeBrexit · 04/09/2019 18:33

The legal and financial consequences would be no worse than if the original tenant reneged on their contract with the OP. Believe me, I've been there.

QualCheckBot · 04/09/2019 18:35

Pipeandmum I have a two bed that rents for £1500/month and it’s usually foreign students. They sign six month leases and generally stay for two years. Never had a problem.

That's a fantastic rental income. Do you mind me being really nosy and asking which university city its in? As I'm interested in the market!

I'd also point out, to be relevant to the thread, that you get to choose and reference and credit check your student tenants! The OP is to get one plonked on her!

IncrediblySadToo · 04/09/2019 18:35

God people are weird

What’s the issue with her friends son staying with her in a 2 bedroom flat that she pays the rent on???

It’s nit the same as letting to whole flat out to students.

I’ve rented & I’ve tented properties out before & in neither situation would this have occurred to me to be a problem.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 04/09/2019 18:35

What does your contract with her say?

If she is otherwise a good tenant I'd maybe say yes but ask for a bit more rent for increased wear and tear if you want?

I understand the no students thing (and this may affect your insurance as insurers view students differently) but I dont think a student staying with a family friend is going to treat the property thr same as a load of students sharing together

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/09/2019 18:36

What’s the issue with her friends son staying with her in a 2 bedroom flat that she pays the rent on??? Legal things!

Quite a few already listed. The latest tranche of laws has made things much harder for LLs to be laissez faire!

Original poster
Neonpotato · 04/09/2019 18:37

Thanks everyone for your advice.
I just read the email again and my letting agency person has already spoken to the insurance broker who has amended the 'statement of fact'....it now says: 'It is noted and agreed that the current tenant will have an overseas Student guest staying with them for the foreseeable future, who will neither be named on the lease agreement nor paying rent'

WTF does that mean!? Can they just make changes like that?

OP posts:
DexyMidnight · 04/09/2019 18:38

If you allow it (I wouldn't, because i wouldn't have let to an adult woman and an unrelated student if that's how they'd presented themselves on application) then the agency needs to get the student to sign a deed confirming that he has no claim over the property, is not a tenant and has no rights at law or under contract.

Original poster
Neonpotato · 04/09/2019 18:38

Foreseeable future?! Oh god.

OP posts:
SunshineCake · 04/09/2019 18:40

I think saying no students is fair enough but he is her son so presumably if she is nice she won't let him wreck the place.

MerdedeBrexit · 04/09/2019 18:41

Don’t be daft. There’s no way the student would have a legal claim on the proprerty.

Nat6999 · 04/09/2019 18:41

What would happen then if your tenant gave up work to become a full time student & could still afford the rent?

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