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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About current tenant's request

271 replies

Neonpotato · 04/09/2019 17:26

Name change as outing.

We have a tenant in our 2 bed flat currently, she seems nice.
Our letting agency has told us that apparently our tenant's friend's son is coming over from overseas to study, and she has asked whether it's ok for him to live in the flat. The agency has checked with insurance and it's fine, and it's not considered subletting as she will continue to pay rent and has full responsibility of the flat.

Can I say no? We specified at the very beginning that no students are allowed. I guess it's not so bad if she also lives there but I don't know how long he will be there for, and worry that he will stay on even if she leaves at some point.
It was good of her to ask and I don't want to be a difficult landlord but we don't really want students. Happy to be told that IABU though.

OP posts:
Brixtongal · 05/09/2019 18:04

You could ask for more details about who the student is, how long they are staying, etc etc. Unless they are doing a three year degree, it's likely this will be short term arrangement. I'd make sure the agency also check the visa status if student coming from overseas. Ultimately it depends on the terms of your agreement though. A tenant has the right to enjoy the property without interference from the landlord. If your tenant rents a two-bedroom flat, she can allow whom she wants to stay, as long as it's not a sublet and covered by insurance. I've been a landlord and to be honest you sound a bit over controlling. How your tenant lives their life is none of your business.

DexyMidnight · 05/09/2019 18:04

@user1482956724 why post on an English language forum if you can't read English to a basic standard?

It's not her son.

Notimefor · 05/09/2019 18:10

🙄

user1482956724 · 05/09/2019 18:11

Its actually irrespective who's son it is. The law remains the same. He simply needs evidence that he has the right to remain.

He is no threat to the tenancy or insurance as a permitted occupier. Way too much drama here and lack of knowledge.

Alpal1 · 05/09/2019 18:12

I suppose if the tenancy says just one person is allowed to live in the flat, then they need your permission, butI wouldn’t have any major issue if I already knew and had a good history with my tenant. Your contract is with the mother not the student. He has no contractual rights. It is also fair to assume she will be responsible enough to veto any student parties, but you can also make this clear, when you give permission.

It is a two bedroom flat, so having just one single tenant is an a luxury tbh.
I am a hands on landlady. I have been in similar positions and have so far said yes to all of them. I don’t see it as very high risk and prefer to say yes, than look for another tenant. But I don’t use agencies and always get to know my tenants which makes it easier to trust them I suppose.

Only you can make this decision, but if you say no, there is a good chance she will move out.
How about getting rent insurance to reduce the risk?

user1482956724 · 05/09/2019 18:12

@Brixtongal

Well said. Very informed and sensible advise.

Dilligaf81 · 05/09/2019 18:25

This is a non issue isn't it?
So if her partner moved in and they were a student you'd say no? If the tenancy is in her name and she is covering the rent then surely she is allowed to have quiet enjoyment and use the home as her own (to a point with decoration and major alterations.)
If the student doesn't leave he is an illegal tenant and you deal with that.
I can't believe as a landlord you want a good tenant to get her back up and probably not extend the tenancy incurring you more costs and time. I think it shows a lot that she has even asked as I think the majority wouldn't.

Dilligaf81 · 05/09/2019 18:30

T0getherindreams

"Why do tennants, who can't afford a home of their own and have no choice but to rent one which belongs to somebody else, think they have a right to just allow others to move in as though they owned the property themselves?
It's a very peculiar situation. How is it even a consideration? People are so entitled today."

Surely you are being sarcastic? Plenty of tenants pay more than a mortgage and for people like you to look down on them is complete snobbery and entitlement from you. If you were (or are) a landlord what is your specific issue with another party joining the current tenant who has been paying rent and will continue to do so? The tenant has asked permission which shows great consideration. Unless the tenant has a very unusual tenancy which states only one party can live in the property you cannot stop her having the student stay. Obviously you can't not renew the contract and cost yourself money and time etc but very short sighted.

DexyMidnight · 05/09/2019 18:41

Alpal1 the problem is that, in my experience, she will not get insurance with an unrelated student over 18 (who is not named on lease) living there. LL insurance is only available cheaply for LLs who rent to working individuals / families who pass the credit checks - you need to earn multiples of the monthly rent to pass. I'm not saying that's right or fair but those are the conditions imposed by the insurance companies and there is nothing small landlords can do about that.

DexyMidnight · 05/09/2019 18:48

Dilligaf "If the student doesn't leave he is an illegal tenant and you deal with that"

It is very expensive and very stressful to get rid of a squatter. The OP is well within her rights to avoid putting her income in jeopardy solely to appease her tenant.

OP I'd tell the agency and tenant you'd consider the request if the student joins the lease. At least one of two things will happen : tenant is suddenly unwilling to proceed (and if she isn't willing to be jointly and severally liable with the student why the hell should you trust him?) and/or student fails credit check and you say 'apologies this invalidates my insurance, can't proceed'.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 18:50

@Dilligaf81 unfortunately it really isn't as simple as that.

The young man is not a member of her household and is an overseas student. The former may cause issues with her insurance - though the LA seems to have taken it upon themselves to sort that. The latter is a legal issue that OP needs to be sure of before she says yes! She needs to get her agen tto run the relevent checks on him, if she wants to consider it.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/right_to_rent_immigration_checks

Blame the government for that last one.. they decided it would be down to the landlord to ensure their tenants were legally entitled to live in the UK

www.gov.uk/check-tenant-right-to-rent-documents

Every ;andlord has to check the legal status of every adult living in their property, whether they are on the tenancy or not

Before the start of a new tenancy, you must check all tenants aged 18 and over, even if:

they’re not named on the tenancy agreement
there’s no tenancy agreement
the tenancy agreement is not in writing

GammaStingRay · 05/09/2019 18:51

Alpal1

Your contract is with the mother not the student.

OP has absolutely nothing to do with the mother. Where are you getting that from?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 18:52

And even if they were mother and son, if he is over 18... see my last post!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 18:53

I am a hands on landlady. I have been in similar positions and have so far said yes to all of them. I don’t see it as very high risk and prefer to say yes, than look for another tenant. But I don’t use agencies and always get to know my tenants which makes it easier to trust them I suppose Can I suggest you ensure that you are up to date with the changes in regulations of the last few years. Maybe an ARLA landlord's course?

syskywalker · 05/09/2019 19:07

It’s not subletting. And yes she doesn’t even need your permission the other person is her guest which you can not say anything about as a landlord. And and madfrogs is correct, by law.

You shouldn’t be a landlord you have no clue about the law!

It’s also discrimination to say no students, even if that was the direct tennant, but it’s not! It’s none of you’re business!

Would you kick your tennant out if they decided to go back to college/uni?! As you can’t by law.

syskywalker · 05/09/2019 19:11

And as it’s not subletting, he’s not a tennant. And that “government requirement” is not actually lawful. Just saying. There’s other laws that trump this. And technically it’s unlawful to pass any such information along to any government agency by GDPA rules enforced across the EU, which trump local law!

timshelthechoice · 05/09/2019 19:13

He's not a guest if he's going to be living there, though.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 19:17

Just saying wtf is that supposed to mean? Show me how it is not legal. Show me how you know better than the governments legal department and a law court!

And technically it’s unlawful to pass any such information along to any government agency by GDPA rules enforced across the EU, which trump local law! All of which means you don't know what the checks are and have no understanding of GDPR!

Pshaw

SidmouthDad · 05/09/2019 19:31

On the whole, I think YABU. No tenancy agreement assumes the tenant should live like a monk with no guests allowed. I think tenant is being honest in asking you. The real issue is how long the stay is expected to last; if it's indefinite that is unreasonable. The 'no students' thing is a red herring because your tenant isn't a student.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 19:34

I'm probably going to hide this thread now. Too many pps coming to tell OP she is being undreasonable because it isn't nice...

LAW... LEGAL REASONS .. NOT HER SON... NOT A GUEST .. LEGAL ISSUES

Vivianebrookskoviak · 05/09/2019 19:42

Party houses are not just student houses. If you're renting to someone young or a group of young people, they could also be party types. Maybe not as often as students but it still could happen. Just putting that out there.

bananasaidso · 05/09/2019 19:43

Are people reading the same thread I am reading? It's NOT Op's son. It's her friends son. Two different things. I guess I would be ok if it was her own son as they are family and your tenant can be held responsible for his actions but don't know how much responsibility she will accept for her friend's son. Can you ask her to give monetary guarantee for her friend's son actions in case of damage to the property or ASB?

bananasaidso · 05/09/2019 19:46

and as other's have said, ask her how long her guest will be staying for? I am pretty sure you can put stipulations as an amendment to the contract that he can only stay for the time period of his course and can't carry out certain activities or damage the property otherwise he and the main tenant will be financially held responsible. Who knows if she is held responsible for him she might even say no to him herself.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/09/2019 20:00

I am pretty sure you can put stipulations as an amendment to the contract that he can only stay for the time period of his course Just as the government has said, length of course + 3 months...

OP has no need to have thatcnversation as anything she puts in her AST (even if she could amend it now) would be overruled by the law, which no contract can override.

OP I hope you went to Landlordzone and got some good answers over there! The Resident Grumps might be a bit short, but they are always helpful! I promise not to reply if I find you Smile

Tessabelle74 · 05/09/2019 20:06

Having experienced this personally, I let my house to a friend and his friend. My friend moved out and his friend was a nightmare he got a puppy without consent etc , I'd definitely say no if you're not happy