To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

I think the entire culture has changed now. Think about what people wear to work. I work in an office working with offenders. No one wears suits , we tend to wear jeans etc. That's the same for most industry.

On a personal level, time is an issue. I work 12+ hour days. I see little of my bed anyway without getting up early to wear makeup etc. I tend to wear leggings and dresses to work, and usually boots. My old ones have broke and I need to collect new ones but in the meantime I'm wearing trainers and looking 'scruffy'. I'm clean, and do feel better when I wear makeup. But not a priority

Hats were rationed in the war, which is why women wore turbans

I teach fashion history. Fashion is essentially a study of anthropology, social history and new technologies.

As society has become less formal, fashion has reflected this. As there is very little new to develop in terms of clothing, fashion has now focused on self decoration/shaping. So tattooing has had a massive increase, as has plastic surgery, liposuction, size 0 v obesity etc.

As women’s role in society has become more dominant, fashions have become less formal. So women wear trousers, jeans, leggings etc, which would have been hardly evident pre ww2. The power dressing suit of the 80’s was mimicking the male silhouette as women moved into previously male dominated roles. Now most clothing is almost unisex, reflecting the almost equal roles of men and women. As these barriers came down, fashion reflected what was happening, so formal clothes were replaced by less formal attire. Every single fashion/clothing trend always has a social reason behind it. I could bore forever about the reasons behind the various hemlines in the 70’s, or indeed any era. Skirt lengths generally follow the economic cycle. So short skirts (20’s 60’s 80’s) reflect a boom and longer skirts a depression or uncertainty (30’s, 70’s, 90’s and now to some extent). Not as true as it used to be, but still reflects to some extent

People will come on and say, we’ll my grandma wore trousers all through the 50’s or whatever, but lm talking about generalities.

I think that some people on this thread are missing the point. Its not a prescriptive thing, that everybody should dress a certain way, or from a bygone era, its a general scruffiness that seems to have become the norm. Its not about how much money you have either. Its laziness.

In the same way that being overweight is becoming normalised, so is looking like a mess. Going to a supermarket in sweaty PJs is like saying that it is totally ok for me to roll out of bed and stroll into a supermarket unwashed. Except it isn't, its gross and unhygienic.

There are class elements too. Although you get the off upper class eccentric wearing strange ensembles (covered in dog hairs etc) in the main those sclepping around Tescos in their nightwear are from a low class. That's a sea change. As people said upthread, in the past working class people had pride in how they looked.

When I started working full time formal dress was still demanded from employers and many did not allow women to wear trousers. So if you wanted a job, you had to conform. I love wearing much less formal and much more comfortable clothes to work. Ian usually the smartest dressed there, and trust me I am not smartly dressed at all.

I hate my body and I hate my face. I've got nothing to be proud of.

I almost think there's an element of pride in how scruffy you can be these days, it's evident even on this thread. So, so depressing.

PhilSwagielka

Of course you have. You're a human being and have every right to feel pride in yourself.

I grew up in an African country in the 70's.Going to Mass on a Sunday we all got dressed up.My DM always wore a dress and hat and white gloves , my DF a suit and we as children always our best clothes Shoes were shined every day before going to school , our school uniform impeccable.I always went to birthday parties in a party dress. Going to 'town' was also an occasion to get dressed up and then go for afternoon tea with my DM.
I trained as a Nurse in the late 80's and our uniform was white and inspected regularly. it had to be perfectly white and starched.We often had to take our caps off to show that the rim was pure white and hold our hands up to show that our finger nails did not grow over the tips of our fingers.No earrings or jewellery were allowed.
We were not wealthy nor were we poor but people definitely did take more pride in their appearance .Its not that long ago either

Quarrel, I take it you weren't a punk then?

In the past, people would have put on their best clothes to go into a town center.

Is it also possible that the people in these pictures are affluent? Factory workers or manual labourers wouldn’t have looked smart in the 1920’s.

There are class elements too. Although you get the off upper class eccentric wearing strange ensembles (covered in dog hairs etc) in the main those sclepping around Tescos in their nightwear are from a low class. That's a sea change. As people said upthread, in the past working class people had pride in how they looked.

Absolutely. Completely grim it is. Nightwear should be banned in supermarkets and shops, that'd be a start.

A lot of punks were exquisitely dressed and put a huge amount of effort into how they looked. For sure, it wasn’t a conventional look but it took a lot of time and trouble.

The NHS still has rules about jewellery - necklaces that won't be grabbed by patients, for instance. I got away with a nose ring when I worked in a hospital, but I was an admin worker. Nurses also have to be bare below the elbow for hygiene reasons.

I did dress formally for synagogue, admittedly. Not by this thread's standards as I didn't wear make-up, but I did wear a long skirt or dress.

I grew up in the 1980s and my DM was way smarter than i am. I don't think i saw her wear a pair of trousers until i was about 10, and certainly not jeans.(ever!) She wore unflattering midi length skirts, pie crust blouses and mid heel court shoes for every day wear and a dress or dressier top and skirt, and higher heels for occassions such going out to eat, or parties.i remeber her dressing more smartly than normal to go on a train journey, and for parents eve as well. I'm ashamed to say i often rush go to parents eve straight from work (i am in a practical/creative job) wearing a tshirt and jeans,and probably trainers or flip flops. My DD is 13 and wouldnt wear a dress to save her life. I hope I dress appropriately to go to a wedding or funeral for example and would make an effort if i was going to a party or out to eat. I think i prefer having the contrast, that its a nice surprise to see the best version of me when I'm going out!!

amandacarnet

I'm Quirrel and no, no I wasn't.

Not sure what your point is but I would say Punks took massive pride in their appearance, immaculate make-up and hair and carefully thought out clothes?

Sarcelle Came on here to say the absolute same.

Around thirty-five years ago I worked at a university where the departmental secretary had her hair put up in a French roll/pleat on a Saturday and throughout the week it gradually got more grips, more hairspray and more loose ends as she tried to make it last from one week to the next. It certainly wasn't a question of washing hair several times a week and doing your hairstyle every day.
Crikey. Thirty-five years ago my DM washed her hair at least once a week, and styled it every day (and had done for as long as I could remember). She was over fifty, but wore jeans and jumpers for casual - and dressed up for things like lunch with a friend.

People wore more formal clothes day to day even into the 1980s, though. I have an elderly cousin who is almost 90, and he still insists on wearing a tie even at home, and won't go out without his jacket on. DH is in a job which now demands 'smart casual', but which 25 or 30 years ago would have entailed a suit and tie every day.

I think the overall effect was generally more glam, but that's not a judgment on whether it was 'right' or 'wrong' to dress like that.

I agree that scruffiness has gone too far.

My Dad still dresses up to go to the Doctors though... was said upthread. And what is wrong with this? I went to the doctor's last week and I was appalled at what some people were wearing. And don't start on, "Ohhh, maybe they were really illlllll...." because that's just crap.

There was a thread the other day about someone being "reprimanded" in the office for dressing too smartly in a dress and cardigan. Some posters were gleefully putting the boot in and castigating the OP for a) showing off b)getting above herself c) not being trendy enough and d) making the public feel uncomfortable.

I feel like getting beamed back to the 1940s. Ok, so there were smelly armpits and stains, but no one was made to feel ashamed for the crime of making an effort.

Factory workers or manual labourers wouldn’t have looked smart in the 1920’s.
My GGGF was a farm manager, so one or two up from an ag lab (which was where he'd started). I have a photo of him taken about 1900-1910 with a bunch of mates/relations, kitted out with dogs and shotguns, and all of them are wearing hats or caps, jackets and waistcoats, and most are in ties too (and gaiters: the world before wellies). This is not the full-on driven shooting uniform that people still wear, this is countrymen about go potting rabbits or pigeons. The clothes look well-worn, bashed to the shape of the wearer - but well made.

Soapona - yes of course, young people dressing scruffily is all down to them competing with immigrants for jobs

@IrmaFayLear people were made to feel very ashamed for not making what was deemed to be an appropriate level of effort, though.

Quite an ironic argument.

I thank the lord I am not living in an era where I have to clad myself in polyester skirts tights and layered items every time I leave the house, imagine the thrush!

Is no one actually wondering why it’s changed? It was uncomfortable, impractical and horribly sexist where women couldn’t wear trousers!

I do not conform to ‘what a woman should wear from 1950’s’ in my own time out of work. I want to wear comfortable clothing and shoes to walk my dog, go shopping and all the boring things people just put on practical clothing for. And I don’t care if someone looks at me and thinks how scruffy, why does it bother anyone else really?

I agree. I was just saying this the otger day.

It is because of women's liberation. I never wore any trousers, even jeans until I was about 13. Skirts or dresses only.

Probably because natural fibres and leather shoes were the only ones that existed so people had no choice.

I have a picture of my great great grandparents and some of the 14 children. The adults are well dressed, the kids clothes were smart styles with formal trousers or shorts for the boys and dresses for the girls but ill fitting, patched and generally in poor condition.