To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

Serious question: why should I wear gloves and a hat? Why am I a bad person for not wearing them?

Those days are gone for the next generation they have had to compete so much with a huge influx of immigrants.

More like they've had to compete with wages not keeping pace with the cost of living and the fact that what were once considered "good" jobs now pay minimum wage which is barely enough to live on in most parts of the country.

When I was little (1950/early 1960s), my mother always made us wear white gloves (summer ones) or sometimes little net gloves when we were dressed up to go to church, special occasions, parties, etc. We wore hats sometimes too. I remember that you usually only had one best dress, then perhaps a skirt and jumper for playing in (often inherited from older sister or cousin) and of course your school uniform.

There’s no reason why you should wear gloves and a hat, has someone suggested you should?

Don't forget that a lot of the hairstyles weren't done everyday. My mother, born in 1920, was a hairdresser who trained in the 1930s. Even the magazines and adverts show that hair was commonly washed only once a week. The caricature of women with hair in curlers was an attempt to preserve a hairstyle for a full week after you'd been to the hairdresser for your shampoo and set. Ask any hairdresser who worked in the 50s and 60s and they'll tell you of styles, eg beehives, being taken down to reveal vermin feasting on the sweat, grease and products. Products were layered on to keep the style from dropping out, just like the clothes with days of sweat layered on. When I went to boarding school in 1970, there were still only three shirts and three pairs of knickers listed to last a week and no more would be accepted by the laundry. Around thirty-five years ago I worked at a university where the departmental secretary had her hair put up in a French roll/pleat on a Saturday and throughout the week it gradually got more grips, more hairspray and more loose ends as she tried to make it last from one week to the next. It certainly wasn't a question of washing hair several times a week and doing your hairstyle every day.

I can also remember not being allowed to wear denim jeans until at least 18 months after all my schoolfriends had adopted them - out of school of course as everyone had to wear strict school uniform to school. I often go past my old secondary school in the bus and see the current inmates wearing leggings and even jeans to school. I still can't quite believe it. There does not seem to be any sort of school uniform any more.

@Alsohuman Just the implication from some posters that it was better when women all wore gloves and hats. I have got gloves that I bought for a burlesque class, but I don't wear them out.

I remember in the 70s my sister and I always had long party dresses, which I think have a more formal look than shorter dresses. Do children these days have party dresses as such?

I dress up for work and going to the theatre, dinner, etc. Otherwise I now live in my jeans.
#Toomanypaws - That's right about the hair - we only washed our hair once a week when growing up and when I became a teenager and wanted to wash it more often, my mother was of the opinion that it was "bad for it" to be washed every other day (but, of course, I carried on doing it!).

I remember in the seventies us laughing at a gran in our street who wore trainers and jeans. She was probably about fifty and we saw jeans and trainers as young peoples clothes. Most women at the time by the time they were in their thirties were wearing skirts, sandals or court shoes, and a blouse or fitted jumper.
There used to be a massive difference between what young adults wore, and anyone older than thirty or thirty five wore.

I once spent a few weeks doing historical recreation a a Tudor. The costumes were as authentic as possible - boned bodices, (plastic boning) linen shifts underneath, petticoat, linen headwear etc. It was summer, but surprisingly comfortable and cool and we looked fantastic - such lovely bright colours. (We washed our underwear regularly!)

Nobody is telling anybody to wear a hat or gloves. It was an observation that we have got scruffier. And we have, it is undeniable.

@Venger No minimum wage back in the good old days. I owned a few properties by age 26 and didn't really think about the cost of clothing. Life is so much harder for younger ones now, may be that why they wear cheap rags. Without a doubt it is unbelievably tough for young ones now they look like they're living in the times of the Hoover Administration when they used cardboard as shoes. Cheap shoes, bikinis etc...

Valentines, I had a long party dress as well. It was a fashion for a bit in the seventies.

Those cheeky young teenagers of my dads era in their jaunty flannel trousers and leather patched sports jackets! Always a tie and leather shoes. His uncle wouldn’t be seen with him outdoors because dad didn’t wear a hat.

because they used up all their 'polishedness' wearing the correct uniform at school?

@nachosTrafficante Just going to highjack the thread to express my extreme envy over your Russian trip, but I digress...

I'm with you OP. I see a lot of people out and about where I live that look like they haven't even run a brush through their hair before leaving the house, the ensemble usually completed with pyjamas. I do wear jeans at the weekend but always make an effort for work and regardless of what I'm wearing, my hair is done and a full face of make up. It doesn't take much effort to look well put together

Because "looking your best" is inherently tied up in the belief that you should look a certain way (even if incredibly uncomfortable or impractical ie corsets etc) for other people's benefit, and society is moving away from that notion.

I know it is probably well meaning but if you think about even the comments on this thread there are people saying things like "women don't know how to dress themselves to show off their best features and hide their worst anymore" as if women should constantly be thinking about looking good for other people and hiding their awful, unappealing, actual bodies. Why should someone need to look pleasing to other people just to pop down to the shops, what is so wrong with their jiggly bits or whatever it may be that they need to be uncomfortably disguised?

I agree that there are lots of nice fashions in the past, but it is not really a negative thing that people feel more free to be comfortably themselves and not judge others for doing the same.

I don't want us to go back to those days. But I don't accept that it has anything to do with money. Most kids wore hand me downs and most women made clothes, because buying clothes was very expensive. The cost of clothes, even very well made clothes, is much much cheaper than in the past.

And bras are much better made these days, even very cheap ones. I also remember tights that would sag if you tried to wear them too many times.

Absolutely. Everyone looks like crap now.

I wish we all dressed like characters from Peaky Blinders. Or call the midwife (different eras I know).

My grandma is so glamorous and always dresses immaculately. I must admit that I’m lazy because I’m tired a lot of the time but I have made a positive step by only allowing myself to wear leggings in the house not out and about!

I can wear comfortable clothes/shoes and still look presentable. It's not the extremes of boned corsets and girdles versus joggers and nothing in between. There's a huge middle ground

Well said, hundred, and I agree it's mainly about self respect. It's perfectly possible to look decent without resembling someone en route to a vicar's tea party ...

I often think that children look badly turned out in old photos. Our area has always been considered a bit poor and the 1950's and 60's photos of local school groups feature a large number of children who are grubby and in ill fitting and worn out clothes to a level that would not be ok today. Even worse in the 30's and the war years. I've seen kids in huge, obviously hand me down shorts held up with compo style string, holes in jumper elbows, dresses far too short and tight even for the utility styles that were brought in. Adults, I would tend to agree that people put a lot more importance on appearance and what people thought. My grandma was worried about what colour to wear to go to the doctors a few weeks after my grandad died, she was used to the idea that people noticed and commented if you got it wrong.

PhilSwagielka

If you just read the last couple of lines of the post above you, there's your answer.

I don't understand the negativity on a couple of posts, especially the poster above who 'despairs' at the thread. It is quite simply an observation and one that clearly a few of us have noticed. No-one is saying we should be wearing gloves etc but there is a complete acceptance these days to look pretty awful - badly cut clothes, way too much flesh on show, smelly people. The thread was to ascertain why that is and when it changed. Some massively insightful posts on here.

@soapona, how the hell do you think any young woman working in the beauty industry on minimum wage can afford designer labels? Maybe if you paid your staff a bit more, they could trade up their see through leggings hmmm?

As usual there’s a nasty undercurrent of snobbery on this thread with the implication that it’s all the underclass’ fault that standards have been lowered. The fact that the likes of Cos and Hush sell just as many scruffy, sloppy sacks as Primark is no doubt overlooked.

I don’t believe it’s a particularly modern phenomenon anyway; casual dressing dates back to the seventies. The difference between casual and “scruffy” is a matter of personal opinion.