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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want him to go to this school

125 replies

Warwick82 · 01/09/2019 18:56

Hi. So I have 3 beautiful children. 2 daughters aged 14 and 11 and my son aged 7. My ds was diagnosed with adhd and autism last year. He is a gorgeous little boy but his mental health is shattered from the way he has been treated at two separate schools and left to struggle from day one. I won’t make out for a second my ds is an angel because he isn’t, but then again how many kids are, however my boy didn’t start school as an anxious, angry confused little boy. Don’t get me wrong he was stereotypically hyperactive, he couldn’t concentrate for very long, touched anything and everything and he flitted from one thing to the next. Fast forward three years however and he is a comepletely different child. He is anxious, low, and has to be encouraged to do the basic things in life like eating a meal or taking a bath.

He was “asked” to leave his first school as they couldn’t cope with him. He was excluded regularly at age 5, put on a reduced timetable, meaning I had to cut my hours at work and ultimately lost my job in the end, was treated badly by staff, including one teacher who decided to try and restrain him and ended up hurting his arm. He was then forced into another mainstream school further away, meaning I could no longer walk him to school and I had all 3 of my children at separate schools. Fast forward a year and despite me telling my local authority that the school placement would inevitably fail, my ds was left to struggle and despite the head teacher writing to the LA countless times stressing that they could no longer meet his needs the LA chose to do morning until now. I knew full well what was happening. The LA wanted my ds to go to their in borough specialist school but there were no places available, but come September there would be. So my son has been left all year falling further behind with his learning, feeling panicky not wanting to go in and being taught by several inexperienced TA’s who didn’t actually have a teaching assistant qualification or appropriate training.

My LA then invited me to go and visit the school they wanted my son to go to which I did. The school itself has had a bad reputation for years and the general consensus is that the majority of kids who go there come from chaotic families backgrounds ie cases of neglect, substance abuse, attachment issues, families who’s kids have been in care etc. But I thought it best not to judge a book by its cover and so i went to have a look around. I was hoping I would be pleasantly surprised but no. The building itself was disheveled, dirty carpets, pokey classrooms, very little in terms of play equipment, in fact my son’s mainstream school had more facilities, staff who seemed disinterested in showing us around the school etc.

AIBU to refuse to send my DS? I’ve already refused and I’m heading to court to fight it but I keep doubting myself. I’ve seen other schools that have so much more to offer my ds yet people, including my family, think there is no point in fighting the system and I should simply agree fot my ds to go there. But he has already had 2 failed school placements at the age of 7. If I were to send him to this school I’m convinced it would be another failure yet my LA are doing their best to try and convince me. My ds does have behaviours I don’t deny it, but he comes from a loving support home and me and my DH have worked tirelessly to support his needs and to provide a stable family unit, yet my LA feel he would do well in a school that to me at least, is only a few prison bars away from being a youth detention centre! Honestly when i picture my ds there I just want to cry. Surely he deserves to go to a school with children similar to him with similar needs and abilities, not simply to be sent to the cheapest possible school with kids he may pick up even more behaviours from.

OP posts:
Ivestoppedreadingthenews · 03/09/2019 09:01

Shouldn’t be like this”, obviously.

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:02

When I visited the school we were in and out within half an hour. I knew that my LA would inevitably name this school so from April i asked the LA arrange a visit for me but they kept fonbing me off and I only got an appointment in July to go and see the school. When I arrived the head teacher didn’t seem to keek on us being there and rushed us around the school. That said I managed to ask important questions however she skirted around most of them. I got to see children being taught in class for around 5 minutes and then they went out on to the playground for break time. The boys played basketball and whilst the staff where on the playground the majority of them had their backs to the children and were chatting away to other staff. We walked around the outdoor area and there was no play equipment which I found odd as even the mainstream school my ds went to had things like climbing walls, a slide, and a forest area for den building. This school however had nothing. The staff didn’t seem very positive apart from the Sendo who seemed a nice man and was happy to answer my questions. It was such a dreary school and can’t across as very depressing and like i said staff didn’t seem happy to be there which isn’t great.

OP posts:
SisterSistine · 03/09/2019 09:03

Are you financially able to throw some money at this? Specialist lawyer, ed psych report, etc?

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:06

Unfortunately I’m not. My ds works full time so we aren’t entitled to legal aid but due to me having to leave my job we haven’t the funds for a lawyer. I’m paying for my son to be assessed privately by a speech theorist and occupational therapist which will cost around £900 but that is literally all the savings we have.

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sunnybeachtime · 03/09/2019 09:06

What exactly are his behaviours? violence to staff/others? If so I imagine this really restricts the options.

I feel for you OP, you clearly want the best for your child. But I am a bit Hmm at you saying that basically all the other children at this school are awful children from chaotic neglectful families, as opposed to your perfect angel. They are children too, and other people will be viewing your son the way you are viewing them Sad

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:10

Honestly I’m sorry if I implied my son is an angel as clearly he’s not. I’m also not saying all the kids who go to the school are from chaotic families but I’ve been advised that a lot of them are. Is it so unreasonable of me to not want my son to pick up more behaviours? He can be aggressive at school but this this is because the busy environment overwhelms him and he doesn’t cope well with change.

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herculepoirot2 · 03/09/2019 09:17

It’s not unreasonable, but it’s not a case either. You have to work on the mismatch between his needs and the school, not the fact that he will be around ‘those’ types of children. In order to be sent to a specialist school, the other children there will have needs that rule out mainstream education, just like your DS.

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:17

And just to point out that I really am past caring how people view my son. I know deep down that me and my dh have done our absolute best to provide him with a stable loving home life and we provide him with the best possible opportunities within our means. Plus the fact we have two older children who are well behaved happy children who are both excelling in school, says a lot. So people can judge us or blame us for the way our ds is but I don’t care as I know the truth.

OP posts:
OneInEight · 03/09/2019 09:20

I think ds1 saw a lot more challenging behaviour at his ASC specialist secondary than he did in the LA EBD primary so going this route will not remove this problem.

You also have to make sure that the independent schools actually deliver what they promise. it seems to me that a lot of schools in this sector give themselves the name without actually the training or facilities to do what they say can do. Although ds1 was a success of this route with had to withdraw ds2 from a different independent school because they over used restraint in our opinion and did not give him the flexible curriculum that he needed to help overcome his anxieties.

lovemenorca · 03/09/2019 09:22

It sounds to me like your son has very high needs and the LA is doing the best it can within budget constraints

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:24

Yeah I get what you’re saying. I’m going to visit the independent school again in a couple of weeks and I have some more questions for them. They are also happy for me to take my Ds to see them so that they can do an assessment of needs which is more than the LA school did. They just took a look at the Ehcp paperwork and offered him a place based on that alone. Paperwork only provides so much info and meeting a child before offering a place is best practice.

OP posts:
lovemenorca · 03/09/2019 09:24

You were there for half an hour OP and you have built up quite a picture.

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:28

I get what you’re saying but just think about how much money the LA have saved over the last 3 years having my son in two mainstream placements instead of in a specialist school. From what I’ve been told by other parents unless the a child is severely complex they offer kids the same school they’re offer my ds and won’t even consider other schools in neighbouring boroughs. They have tried all sorts to get me to back down and have put pressure on me to do so. I guess some parents will give in as they feel that they have no chance of winning at tribunal. I’m not saying that I’ll win our case but even if I don’t I’ll at least know that I’ve tried my best.

OP posts:
Sarahandco · 03/09/2019 09:28

Nobody can blame you for wanting your son to go to the best school available.

It sounds as though the head didn't want to show you around as it is not somewhere parents choose to send their children voluntarily and possibly some of the children there cannot cope with visitors to the school?

Have you looked at what is on offer in other LAs? I know you shouldnt have to but have you considered moving to another LA if there were a better offering?

youarenotkiddingme · 03/09/2019 09:28

Thee are so many point of law your la have failed in so far I don't know where to start.

Firstly - they can't ask you to remove your child or place them ona PT timetable. They have a responsibility in law to provide an education suitable to the pupils needs.

Secondly- if they couldn't meet need at that school and therefore provided one a distance away (if over 2 miles at your sons age) then they are responsible for providing transport.

Thirdly - does he have an echp? He should have 1 and you may hear all the reasons why he doesn't need one but law is law. Have you'd sendcop? If you don't believe the echp is qualified and specified and they aren't offering a suitable placement you can appeal to tribunal. But you'll need to make sure that his echp states things like play equipment is needed or it just becomes about your personal opinion. If you have the finances and are appealing to tribunal it's worth sourcing indi OT and EP reports. You don't even need them to attend tribunal but you need the reports to clearly state what he needs.

Last but not least - have a look around all schools within a reasonable travel distance. He may be better suited to a indi specialist school for children with asd/adhd and the la will be responsible for funding this and transporting him if it's all they have to meet his need.

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:31

I was there for half an hour because staff seemed in a hurry to rush us around. Plus the school is small compared to others I’ve seen so it didn’t take long. I did however have time to ask questions and jot things down in my note book. The school has very little to offer hence why it was a quick visit. When I went to visit the independent school I was there around an hour as the head teacher wanted to know the ins and outs about my son and actually took the time to ask us questions. That didn’t happen at the LA school.

OP posts:
MollyButton · 03/09/2019 09:32

Are you in contact with your local NAS group? They can often supply a wealth of local knowledge and put you in contact with other parents who have gone through it.
Another group to contact and who might be able to give you legal support is SOSSEN

It isn't your responsibility that the LA is poorly funded, although that is part of the reason they will try to get him into an inappropriate but LA funded special school rather than pay for a private one.
However you do need to get your thoughts clear - some Independent Special schools are better than others,and it isn't always all the therapies on offer that prove it is better (staff turnover for example can be higher than you would hope).

youarenotkiddingme · 03/09/2019 09:33

No one wants to see their child fail.

But there could be advantages to trying the la school.

A) if he doesn't work you have that ammunition at tribunal for needing an alternative placement.

B) it could work. I sent my ds to a school expecting it to fail whilst we waited for tribunal. 3 years later he's achieving far more than I could ever have imagined.

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:38

Yes you are right, tney have broken so many protocols it’s unreal. At our final meeting at school professionals agreed with the head teacher that my ds could not go back to the school in September. I explained that they cannot do this and they would have to permanently exclude my ds ( with a valid reason) in order to have him removed from school. My LA are saying that technically the mainstream school are still responsible for his education until a tribunal hearing has been held, but they can’t force the school to take him back and therefore would have to provide maybe a home tutor. Well schools go back here today and no education has been arranged for my ds. Regarding transport we’ve never had this. Thankfully I drive so could take my ds to school but I then found out as the school is 7 miles away I should have had transport or at least be paid parental mileage. It never got sorted out though.

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butterflywings37 · 03/09/2019 09:39

The basis of your tribunal appeal has to be based on what your son's needs are, the provision the LA can not provide that his EHCP states he needs compared to what the independent school can provide.

The view of he has been failed in past and you don't know want him to fail again will not be considered unless you can highlight the above.

They want you to send him to the LA school as if he goes there and they then state they can meet need them he will not be moved to an Independent school.

NettleTea · 03/09/2019 09:41

One of the biggest questions is has the LA funded any pupil to the school that you want your son to go to?
Do they have a pathway of funding from the LA?
Because unless that is set up it is, if I recall, almost impossible to get an LA to fund a school in the private sector.

Grasspigeons · 03/09/2019 09:42

Hdo you know what the cost difference is? Whole costs including transport

herculepoirot2 · 03/09/2019 09:44

I am confused by your last post. Why isn’t he at school if they haven’t excluded him and you (rightly) have pointed out that he has a place unless they do?

Warwick82 · 03/09/2019 09:45

My concern with letting him start at the LA school is that i genuinely believe once he’s in there he’s in there and even if things don’t improve my La will try and keep him the regardless. I know I sound daft saying that but like I said they’ve done it before so I don’t see how I can trust them now. They knew his first mainstream placment was a disaster from the start yet they didn’t get involved until the head was excluding him on a weekly basis. They then put pressure on me to let him try another school to give him a fresh start which I reluctantly agreed to. Things at the new school were ok for s while but things went downhill rather quickly. They didn’t intervene and just left him to struggle despite knowing it wasn’t the right place for him so why would they step in if my ds goes to the specialist school and things don’t improve? I can’t trust anyone as none of them have my son’s best interests at heart.

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Mumoftoo19 · 03/09/2019 09:49

I have no advice but didnt want to read and run. I am in a very similar situation. Was intending to homeschool my son whilst awaiting EHCP being finalised but have been advised not to or LA dont have to provide anything if I do. School have admitted they cannot meet his needs and that he needs a specialist school. LA say mainstream is fine. Currently waiting for the consultation process to begin. In the meantime I am pushing for reduced timeable as DS just cannot cope. I really hope you get what you need soon!Flowers