To not want him to go to this school

[Warwick82]

Hi. So I have 3 beautiful children. 2 daughters aged 14 and 11 and my son aged 7. My ds was diagnosed with adhd and autism last year. He is a gorgeous little boy but his mental health is shattered from the way he has been treated at two separate schools and left to struggle from day one. I won’t make out for a second my ds is an angel because he isn’t, but then again how many kids are, however my boy didn’t start school as an anxious, angry confused little boy. Don’t get me wrong he was stereotypically hyperactive, he couldn’t concentrate for very long, touched anything and everything and he flitted from one thing to the next. Fast forward three years however and he is a comepletely different child. He is anxious, low, and has to be encouraged to do the basic things in life like eating a meal or taking a bath.

He was “asked” to leave his first school as they couldn’t cope with him. He was excluded regularly at age 5, put on a reduced timetable, meaning I had to cut my hours at work and ultimately lost my job in the end, was treated badly by staff, including one teacher who decided to try and restrain him and ended up hurting his arm. He was then forced into another mainstream school further away, meaning I could no longer walk him to school and I had all 3 of my children at separate schools. Fast forward a year and despite me telling my local authority that the school placement would inevitably fail, my ds was left to struggle and despite the head teacher writing to the LA countless times stressing that they could no longer meet his needs the LA chose to do morning until now. I knew full well what was happening. The LA wanted my ds to go to their in borough specialist school but there were no places available, but come September there would be. So my son has been left all year falling further behind with his learning, feeling panicky not wanting to go in and being taught by several inexperienced TA’s who didn’t actually have a teaching assistant qualification or appropriate training.

My LA then invited me to go and visit the school they wanted my son to go to which I did. The school itself has had a bad reputation for years and the general consensus is that the majority of kids who go there come from chaotic families backgrounds ie cases of neglect, substance abuse, attachment issues, families who’s kids have been in care etc. But I thought it best not to judge a book by its cover and so i went to have a look around. I was hoping I would be pleasantly surprised but no. The building itself was disheveled, dirty carpets, pokey classrooms, very little in terms of play equipment, in fact my son’s mainstream school had more facilities, staff who seemed disinterested in showing us around the school etc.

AIBU to refuse to send my DS? I’ve already refused and I’m heading to court to fight it but I keep doubting myself. I’ve seen other schools that have so much more to offer my ds yet people, including my family, think there is no point in fighting the system and I should simply agree fot my ds to go there. But he has already had 2 failed school placements at the age of 7. If I were to send him to this school I’m convinced it would be another failure yet my LA are doing their best to try and convince me. My ds does have behaviours I don’t deny it, but he comes from a loving support home and me and my DH have worked tirelessly to support his needs and to provide a stable family unit, yet my LA feel he would do well in a school that to me at least, is only a few prison bars away from being a youth detention centre! Honestly when i picture my ds there I just want to cry. Surely he deserves to go to a school with children similar to him with similar needs and abilities, not simply to be sent to the cheapest possible school with kids he may pick up even more behaviours from.

Well, good luck.

ds1 has just returned to mainstream education after six years in specialist schooling. I have to say I was almost in tears when I looked around the PRU attached to the primary EBD school the LA allocated a place at but thank heavens we agreed as they were absolutely fantastic with him. It is not the fixtures and fittings that are important but the staff and how they interact with the children to get the very best out of them.

His secondary (specialist for ASC) got regularly slated by OFSTED but he has come out with ten GCSE's at grades that even the grammar who refused to accept him would not sneer at. More importantly though he has developed the social maturity to be able to cope with the outside world because he has been in that nurturing environment (hope I am not tempting fate here as he has only done one day so far in mainstream).

hercule. Yes absolutely and you point is? The definition of SEN is when a child needs above and beyond what a neurotypical child needs of the same age.

Would an independent school give him the support he needs? Or do you mean a complex needs school?

Yes absolutely and you point is? The definition of SEN is when a child needs above and beyond what a neurotypical child needs of the same age.

I don’t know which of my posts this is a reply to, or what you are objecting to.

hercule why so hostile? Have you any idea what it’s like to try and get the support your child needs? If not, you are lucky.

Yeah my LA have suggested I send my ds to the school they’ve named whilst we go through the tribunal process, but I can’t understand their reasoning behind this. If I’m willing to go through all the stress of tribunal to keep him out of the school then it wouldn’t make sense to send him there in the meantime. Especially since if I win at tribunal for my choice of school it would then mean uprooting him and moving him again. Plus, I’ve been advised that if I do let him try the school in the meantime and then we find it isn’t working I would then need permission from my LA to take him off roll and home educate. So if I lose at tribunal and he’s already attending the school he’s stuck there and there’s nothing I can do about it.

You referred to the cost of the OP placement costing more than everyone else’s.

Don't dimiss this school based on looks. They may well be concentrating everything on the kids and not making huge deals over spill and dents and dings in the classrooms and furniture.

It can be a long a tough fight to get the LA to fund an independent school. I have a friend who successfully did so but it took multiple tribunal hearings and expert evidence why the SN school the council provided wasn’t meeting his needs (severe ASD). From memory it cost her £££ to fight but it was worth it as the school was expensive. Her DS improved noticeably in the new school.

The LA has a legal duty to provide an adequete (not perfect) education for your child.
You need to focus on how the school they are proposing would not provide an adequete education rather than how perfect the other school is.
I dont know where in the ehcp process you are so cant be specific here. But if you have an ehcp look at the needs/outcomes/provisions and show how they cant be met at the proposed unsuitable school.

Make sure you have notified the LA of your preferred school and make sure that it would provide an adequte education (ie of you said school you dont want doesnt have an onsite OT which was specified in plan and your preferred school also doesnt have an OT you will have a problem)

And yes LA will pay for independent special schools as sometimes they are the only suitable school!

notsohippychick

I did. And cost will be a consideration in the LA’s decision. If they have offered a place that they believe meets the child’s level of need, the OP will need to very clearly demonstrate that it does not before they will okay this level of expenditure. Shabby carpets and poky classrooms aren’t going to make that case.

Do report your post and get it moved to SEN, you will get much more informed advice there.

I would absolutely fight for a more appropriate school. It sounds like you have evidence there that the school they want to name can not meet his needs. It is very common for local authorities to write crap EHCPs, unfortunately. Are you getting any support with your appeal from specialists like IPSEA or your local SENDIASS?

My son has an ASD diagnosis and his behaviour is pretty terrible at his mainstream school as he cannot cope in that environment. The local authority made big noises about sending him to a pupil referral unit, for kids with SEMH. It would have been an awful setting for him as everything they do for discipline is what he struggles with due to his autism.

Thankfully we have a good mainstream school who said absolutely not. Instead now the local authority have agreed to fund him to attend a specialist independent school. We just have to find one.

Schools DO fund independent schools, I don't even think it is that uncommon. Certainly where we are there just isn't any local authority provision for most children who can't cope in mainstream, so the LA have no choice but to fund independent.

Basically the independent school offers access to on site speech and occupational therapists, mental health practitioners, and psychiatrists. My ds doesn’t access any of these externally as professionals have washed their hands of him stating he won’t engage. But his anxiety is so high at times and as he sees different therapists each time he is on edge and won’t work with them. If he were at at school where he could access therapy regularly with the same people he would develop trust and relationships meaning he’d be more open to engaging with them. The La school don’t have on site therapy so he wouldn’t be able to access it at all. Plus the fact the La have no outdoor provision, just two basketball nets, which considering they take young kids from year 3 is ridiculous. They have no safe spaces or sensory rooms for children to go if they feel overwhelmed. The school was assessed externally last year and it was stated that children as young as 7 being educated alongside teenagers is a significant safeguarding risk and needs to be addressed. This is also one of my concerns. Although my son has behaviours deep down he a vulnerable emotional little boy and if he were to witness teenagers acting out he would be distraught.

Fight it every step of the way OP.

And yes, pokey classrooms can definitely be a reason not to keep your child there. If there’s a class of 30, in a small classroom and your son has ASD and sensory problems, it can be one of the main barriers to education.

Good luck op x

We have a final ehcp now. My ds has had it since he was 4 but it has since been amended to name the specialist school. I don’t know if it will help things but I plan on including correspondence between school and the LA which paints the picture that my ds has been left for a year struggling in mainstream so that come the summer my La could make their choice of specialist school. The La school only take kids from year 3 onwards and as my son was year 2 he couldn’t go last year. So I know exactly what they’ve done. Thankfully I have copies of letters and emails that the head teacher sent to the LA stating almost a year ago they could not meet needs yet nothing has happened until a week before the summer holidays. Not sure if it will help or not but I don’t care it needs to be pointed out.

How well is the ehcp written? Does it say he needs those therapies and access to sensory rooms etc.

The LA school has the wrong specialism from what you are saying. Its not asd friendly.

Does the LA not have an autism specialist school? Or do they consider him to academically capable for that cohort?

I don't really understand your objections to the offered school. You talk about the other families and the buildings. You seem to think he'll be excluded again but don't explain on what grounds (fwiw, this is very unusual in SEMH settings) . You don't talk about the ethos, the teaching and the staff all of which are far more important. Have you visited during a school day?

Hercule is correct that you will have a fight on your hands if the LA offers a school which can cover the needs listed in your ds' EHCP - but it doesn't mean you shouldn't take it on. In the end it doesn't matter what facilities are on offer at the independent school; it's what support and interventions are in your son's EHCP and where those listed needs can be met. For example, say the indie has a hydrotherapy pool and daily speech therapy - this is not a useful argument unless your son's EHCP specified that he has physio needs that could be supported by hydrotherapy or that he needs daily speech therapy, so it won't matter that those things aren't offered by the LA school if you see what I mean.

Are you challenging sections B and F of the EHCP? The LA will have written those so that they "fit" the school you are nominating - also most LAs make section F far too vague anyway. You ideally need independent evidence demonstrating why your child needs a high level of therapy provision on site and other provision offered by the independent school.

Have you involved your MP? My MP was brilliant when the LA refused to even assess for an EHCP.

Sorry, cross posted with your last 2 which explain your objections better.

I agree that if sections B and F are badly written you will need to challenge them to mske progress.

Not sure if it will help or not but I don’t care it needs to be pointed out.

I can’t see how it would help. It’s whether the school meets the needs as stated on your son’s EHCP. For what it’s worth, I agree the school doesn’t sound ideal.

The LA only has one specific school for children with autism but the school have said they can’t meet needs. To be honest they are also a very complex needs schoo to for medical needs, severely autistic kids and those with Down’s syndrome etc. The school itself is lovely and staff are brilliant but my ds, despite being left to struggle, is actually quite bright and able. They said he wouldn’t have a peer group due to the current cohort of kids so that was the end of that. The content of his Ehcp isn’t great. Despite amending the plan and agreeing he needs a specialist placement, my LA have not requested any new assessments from professionals such as an educational psychologist. The reports that where used initially to make the plan are four years old and no longer relevant. The one assessment he did have was for social communication and for some reason the LA did not include any of the observations or recommendations in the Ehcp. They were very specific and i know the La school can’t provide this so of course the LA didn’t include it as it may point to another type of school being required.

Oh dear. The LA are behaving appalingly.
Get some advice from ipsea/sossen and so on. You need a good ehcp as its the foundation of the childs education provision going forward. If it doesnt even include all his needs and the professional reports available its not very accurate.

Hi, so there is a way but it’s long and requires you to have a will of steel. You need to keep stating in writing, clearly how it won’t meet his needs. Focus on what level and type of training, what ASD or ADHD specific strategies they have etc... then take it all the way to tribunal and demand a place at another SEN school that actually meets his needs (there are lots of both state and independent- choose the one you want now and ask for their help to show how they could meet his needs). This will likely take you at least a year though, during which you either send him or home school.
It should be like this, but sadly it’s who shouts loudest.