AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

Most countries have much longer summer holidays. Some even from mid June to mid September.

Pamplemoussecat, as I said, whether rightly or wrongly if you change the holidays teachers will leave. Maybe they will then realise how easy their job actually was, but would you want your child being at school in the midst of a teaching shortage?
One way it could work would be fewer holidays, but the same flexibility over when to take them that other jobs have.

I don’t believe the restrictions have n teachers holiday are a hardship as they fall at key holidays and there are so many. Other high pressure, regulated, jobs are armed forces, midwifery, nursing, nursery workers, doctors, surgeons, social workers to name a few. Yes many of you do a good job and that’s fantastic but you aren’t Demi gods in a league of your own.

Other high pressure, regulated, jobs are armed forces, midwifery, nursing, nursery workers, doctors, surgeons, social workers to name a few.

Do they have the same restrictions on annual leave?

I don’t believe the restrictions have n teachers holiday are a hardship as they fall at key holidays and there are so many

What a shame little Freddie's school play doesn't take place during one of those "key holidays". Or your best friends wedding. Or any of the other things people use annual leave for.

Do you really think that all of these other professions just grant everyone leave when they want it? Of course they don’t. One of my friends recently couldn’t go to her child’s parents evening at school because she had to work a shift. I can’t imagine weddings are a huge issue on a regular basis as they tend to fall during holidays or weekends. It is a shame having to miss things but it happens to all of us. An example is I’m not going to be able to be at my daughter’s birthday party this year as I have to work that weekend. It’s shit but that’s life. I’ll do something with her on her own to try to make up for it.

SoupDragon - most jobs have restrictions on annual leave around business needs and ensuring cover. I am very supportive of teachers. I work in a school in admin and have the same restriction on my annual leave as teachers do (but nothing like the stress obviously!) but in my previous jobs ive had things like no time off in the run up to christmas (including christmas day itself). The police regularly have all annual leave cancelled for weeks on end due to external events. The armed forces go on tour and dont see family for months. My DH has to take 1 week of his leave at christmas and he has to take 1 week in line with a particular scottish half term so he only has two flexible weeks a year. Thats just an ordinary office job.

The practical conflict, before everyone spends the rest of the day in competition hardship, is that: 1) people have to work, more now than ever, and can't take time off in school holidays; 2) Many, perhaps most school staff are people who have kids of their own and therefore need to work the same time as their kids.

As someone on page 1 said, there are other ways of sorting this conflict out. Work not paying and the housing crisis are the major contributors, as is the way the world of work likes to ignore the people it has to be designed around. All of that is what needs to change.

Aww shit must've missed the post where someone said they were a Demi-god - surely that should be actual god though, less of the the Demi!
Teachers get good holidays but have no flexibility about when to take them.
Some other jobs get less good holidays and have flexibility about when to take them.
Some other jobs get less good holidays and have little flexibility about when to take them.
Do we need to race further toward the bottom?
Whether or not you agree, lots of teachers would resign if their job did not involve the long holidays. They just will. I would. I asked dh and he said he'd hand his notice in the same day.
How will this help schools or children?

Whether or not you agree, lots of teachers would resign if their job did not involve the long holidays. They just will. I would. I asked dh and he said he'd hand his notice in the same day.How will this help schools or children?

This is true. There is a retention and recruitment crisis already which is why I strongly suspect nothing will change-the government would have nobody qualified left.

This post is NOT about teachers though. It is about whether reducing (not altering the pattern of) the children’s holidays will help address inequality.

It doesn't especially matter whether other people think teachers should be willing to take a reduction in their holiday entitlement, how they ought to feel about it, or how bad someone else's situation is. The facts are that we have a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching, and that the current salaries are calculated based on them not working 48 weeks a year. This means it's going to involve more money to get them to accept more teaching time, or more of them will leave, or both. For something that risks serious detriment to our children's mental health.

Use the money it would take to have schools open for longer to assist with childcare, including enriching activities, and with food costs for those who need this in the holidays.

Use the money it would take to have schools open for longer to assist with childcare, including enriching activities, and with food costs for those who need this in the holidays.

And as we all know-the money isn’t there for either anyway!

The OP thinks sending all kids to school all summer will solve inequality. I disagree and I expect I’m not alone judging by this thread. I think it would make the differences between private and state kids (haves and have nots) worse and make inequality much worse. The effect it would have on children’s mental health would be disastrous.

The government probably won’t care anyway and it’s not a priority for them so it’s all a bit of a moot point.

Yabu - I live somewhere where we have 12 weeks holiday! Surely if there were more holidays during the year it would just shift the problem?

if you change the holidays teachers will leave

Where will they all find new jobs on similar pay with similar holidays??

I'm confused. Is anyone believing that teachers, who do a fab job in a very demoralising environment, should accept a reduction in their holiday, the one bonus of their job, because some families struggle to entertain their kids for 6 weeks?

Thus too me strike of another example of families wanting kids but only for the fun part of it. When it comes to having to work hard to look after them, they are not so keen and expecting others to do it on their behalf.

There's so much that can be done to entertain kids in the summer on low money but it demands creative thinking, researching, organising and planning, ie. work! That and teaching kids that life is not all about others having to entertain them.

Use the money it would take to have schools open for longer to assist with childcare, including enriching activities, and with food costs for those who need this in the holidays.

😂What money??

On the specific subject of inequality and privilege, if our children's mental health worsens collectively, we will see plenty more of this. Families with resources can spend money on enjoying the holidays, they could use those resources to pay for private mental health treatment if needed. Their children will be in a better position to weather the detrimental after effects of increased school hours. If you instigate something that will have a collective detrimental impact on health, that widens inequality.

It’s not because people struggle to “ entertain” their kids! Some people have to work otherwise they simply can’t pay the bills for goodness sake. Stop misunderstanding on purpose just to suit your book. Also let’s not generalise re teachers. There are many “ fab” teachers but there are also some dreadful ones. I feel a bit astonished that it appears that the only reason teachers appear, here, to do the job is simply the holidays. Surely there must be some kind of desire, love of imparting knowledge albeit it often in difficult circumstances with lack of resources and large classes ( again govt cuts was this part of the Gove regime?) I don’t think the answer is to drastically reduce holiday but the six weeks can be really tough to manage childcare for. However as another poster wisely said it’s not a race to the bottom and the reality is it probably wouldn’t help the pupils or teachers. Answer would be better leave for employees so they are able to spend some time with their kids .

YANBU

Not only to poorer children lose skills and tread water through the holidays, but they don't gain the skills richer children do - those unquantifiable, varied and unique things. Visiting parts of their own country - stuck in inner city so many kids haven't even seen the major buildings or river or landscape of their immediate surroundings.

Even the talent for being so bored you make up stuff to do - this is a major driver in our house. In the past this has driven visits to houses and museums to see specific items, leading to watching a film about a particular person, leading to another visit to another house... this drives the learning experience so much. Mine have also got so bored they started cooking - baking bread, making jam, pasta.... They've also had the opportunity to learn to surf, run up a sand dune, learn't about insects and wildlife

They don't have a curriculum to follow in the holiday and nor should they. I don't think it should be like school - but I do think we should be supporting our disadvantaged children to get these non-academic skills. They are what makes the product of a more privileged upbringing more confident, flexible, intellectually agile and individual than a disadvantaged one.

Opportunities to visit parts of the country and landscape, learn a specific skill, sport, arts or creative skills.

I don't know what we are going to do about this though.

Again it all points to the govt and the crap state of this place right now. Schools in crisis, NHS crumbling, poverty, zero hours contracts, crap Tory govt, monarchy that barely anyone wants. A fresh new start needed .

I don't think more teaching time is the right answer for the teachers or the pupils.

Where we live (Not the UK) There is a much shorter school day and longer holiday, but there is structured, subsidised after school (until 6pm) and holiday care. (Not staffed by the same teachers who work in the school)

It costs us about 200 pounds per month (is means tested so poorer families don't pay) and includes a hot meal. The children get the social interaction and informal learning without the formality of school and working parents are supported in terms of childcare.

It is brilliant. The cost? Much higher taxes of course. But that is what people have to accept. If you want better services, you have to pay for them.

Well austerity is a political and ideological project as much as an economic one. So the issues of whether there's money and whether it is realistically going to be spent are separate plenty of money for No Deal Brexit prep though obv. But it's true, the current shower are unlikely to go for anything that will be more expensive. I myself would be willing to pay more tax to fund things that are actually worth doing, but the OPs proposal certainly doesn't fit into that category.

But that is what people have to accept. If you want better services, you have to pay for them

This!! But unfortunately the UK government has created a population of mostly reliant, entitled people who are barely willing or able to pay for much. If they think it can be provided for free or heavily subsidized then it should but at no cost to them of course 🙄

The trouble is, if you move a week to October, then you may end up encouraging a more sedentary lifestyle for our children as the weather tends to be rainy then, this pushing them indoors onto consoles/boredom snacking or even more expensive entertainment such as wanting to go to the cinema, soft play etc.

myself would be willing to pay more tax to fund things that are actually worth doing, but the OPs proposal certainly doesn't fit into that category.

Absolutely.