AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

this is so.simple to solve I feel

This thread suggests otherwise.

Sorry - funding for PP activities during summer is essential

You are being incredibly unreasonable!!! Children need this time off

No, they don't. When I was a kid my parents moved around a lot. I've had summer breaks of 5,6,7 and 8 weeks. After 4 weeks I didn't need more time off. The kids are well rested after all that time and have played a lot. What I did need was longer holidays somewhere between september and may. When you are a kid that is a very very long time to just have short holidays. It would be better to have a 4 week holiday in summer and a 4 week holiday in winter. That way the year is more in balance. I don't think it will ever be implemented though, I suspect too many parents don't want to take time off in the winter, even though it would be better for the kids.

But this is nothing new. Surely you knew this and considered it before having children?? I'm also not trying to be goody but I just don't get a lot of these responses - nothing new has happened in the world of schooling vs holidays. It's the same system we all grew up in (with a lot less entertainment) so surely you planned ahead before having children and knew what to expect???? What did you think would happen when you had them?

This is a such a glib, unempathetic attitude. You can only plan for so much. And it's not what I grew up in.

In terms of what's changed: When I was a child, many council houses had gardens, now you'd be in a flat or b&b. I spent most of my holidays playing in the garden or on the (virtually traffic-free) road where all the children played together, providing a bit of safety in numbers.

My school had a local very cheap playscheme, and my primary school had huge playing fields and a swimming pool, great fun for kids and lots of outdoor space. At most schools it's all concrete and overcrowded now. House prices were comparatively cheaper so loads more families had a SAHM and they'd be able to help working parents out. At my DC's school today, of the 10 or so parents I feel I could ask to help, they ALL work.

When I was thinking about having DC I planned to use holiday clubs as have no family nearby, and some annual leave. The school we moved near but didn't get into (as catchment areas shrunk massively in the 5 years from getting pg to applying) had a holiday club provision whereas the school we ended up in doesn't.

And then, loads of non school affiliated holiday clubs only run 9-4 or only until mid August, rendering them pretty useless.

I also wasn't expecting so many inset days tagged onto the holidays that we needed to cover this year making it more than 7 weeks long.

Lots of things are not within our control. You see on here all the time, GPs who say they'll do childcare but then won't, people losing their jobs or relationships breaking down, elderly relatives getting ill and needing care, all of which have an impact practically and financially.

Schools are not childcare.
Schools are not food banks.
School are not social services.
Schools are not therapist.
Schools are not parents.
Schools are not and have not bottomless pits of money and resources.

They shouldn't be either, despite them picking up the slack during term time. Schools can't and shouldn't be everything for everyone 52 weeks a year. The main aim of school is to educate children.

It's not the school system that is not fit for purpose in this case, it's the government cutting costs here there and everywhere, from benefits to essential services to school funding.It's the government not subsidising childcare adequately leaving both parents and childcare places at a loss.

You want change? Tackle,petition,promote and fight for these things first. The school holidays aren't the issue, the rest is.

Shouldn't we be empathetic to the children who's family lives in other countries as well? You may have 1 parent in the UK and another in Australia, for example. If we eliminate holiday then they will not be allowed to see them, will they?

Mine go back next week. They are dreading it. Like hell would we want more time off when it’s wet and miserable that’s even more money to spend on bored children who can’t/won’t play out in the rain when it’s also darker much much earlier. At least I can fill up the pool and let them stuff themselves silly on salads in August.

Childcare is going to be an issue wherever the holidays fall unless you want to just take away days off and well then I’d expect teachers and the majority of parents and students to complain and put up a fight for that.

There could be vastly more summer playschemes, like the one I'm involved in, with a few very simple changes.

Charge fairly for school premesis in the holidays - Church groups get a discount because they are a charity. Children's activity groups get a discount because they are for the kids. Registered childcare get charged full whack regardless if they charge £56 a day or £5 a day

Properly fund Volunteer Action - One woman getting paid a wage used to keep many, many voluntary groups in the loop about funding. She was the one in the know about what to target - obesity is the key word so focus on sport and healthy eating, outdoors is the key so focus on days out etc.

Work together and be logical - I had to harass the local council leader at a public meeting for one person to be allowed to pick up multiple packed lunches on the holiday lunch scheme. It means children can still access facilities and, more importantly, means one person can drive or bus to the school and doesn't involve everyone having to pay to get there.

Don't make life unecessarily difficult - when I'm running the playscheme I'm not allowed to let any other group into the building. That means the school uniform bank have to hire another day (cost for them, plus cost for the parents).

Schemes that give staff to big businesses for free could include well established local groups. It's crazy that a multi million pound childcare business locally currently has THREE staff who are being paid jobseekers allowance each week, yet despite us being fully registered with Ofsted, the council, DBS, Children in Need and the National Lottery we are not "registered enough to classed as a business" therefore we can't. Especially when you consider the references I write for people include their skills rather than just "X worked from Y date to X date" so are actually useful.

Although the major one is sort the clusterfuck that is Universal Credit - that is a shambles that has crippled many people financially. Especially in the waiting period and the waiting period for childcare to be paid out.

Also put back the funding to libraries and sports centres - previously kids over 8 swam free in the holidays, but funding cuts mean that was taken away and when the library is open seems to be a lottery!

Schemes that give staff to big businesses for free could include well established local groups. It's crazy that a multi million pound childcare business locally currently has THREE staff who are being paid jobseekers allowance each week, yet despite us being fully registered with Ofsted, the council, DBS, Children in Need and the National Lottery we are not "registered enough to classed as a business" therefore we can't. Especially when you consider the references I write for people include their skills rather than just "X worked from Y date to X date" so are actually useful.

Just to say - I actually despise those schemes. However, if they are in place they should be allowed to include local groups not just big businesses like Tesco and big childcare companies.

And so everyone ignores the real issues around holiday hunger

Parents have to provide a lunch for their children on school days, be it a packed lunch or paid for hot lunch.

Those on FSM will be getting benefits for the child so should be using it to provide food.

@lyralalala you speak a lot of sense. But your ideas are too logical and sound like hard work, so we just have the yearly "scrap the holidays " threads , disguised under various "think of the children/parents/whatever " hats. But it's same shit different September year after year.

Those on FSM will be getting benefits for the child so should be using it to provide food.

Wow. I think you might be underestimating how little money many of these people have even with their benefits, and how providing an extra, say, 10-15 meals a week overstretches them.

Incidentally something like 25% of families in the UK are in food poverty - ie they can't afford to buy food to provide a balanced diet in line with govt guidelines. So even those who can afford to give their children a basic lunch during the holidays aren't able to provide them with the same nutrients school dinners would provide.

The long summer leads to poorer academic outcomes for disadvantaged children,

That has actually been debunked. The holidays have no effect on overall learning.

OP- you have your arse in your hands now and are making wild statements that bare no resemblance to what we are actually saying.

OP- getting rid of the school holidays will solve child hunger and inequality.

People on this thread- not it won’t for these specific reasons. Here are some alternative ideas.

OP- you’re all a bunch of middle class mummies who know nothing. Lashings of ginger beer.

Do you hear yourself? The only person being a snob on here is you. A reverse snob.

All the people on here who work in education will have experience of children from deprived homes. I teach children I know will have shit holidays. But there are better uses of our resources than locking them in a classroom all day. Play schemes! Organised trips! Funded holiday clubs where they can learn a craft!

Any bloody thing than taking away their childhood. We should be helping them have one by providing play spaces. Not making them sit all day long.

You can keep the same number of holiday weeks, just space them out a bit. The long summer leads to poorer academic outcomes for disadvantaged children, and is harder for financially stretched parents to juggle, as it's such a big cost in one go and it's harder to ask for babysitting favours from friends and family for 6 weeks running.

You can, but OP isn't arguing for that. She wants the overall amount of holiday to be reduced, which is a terrible idea for reasons of child mental health. Whereas the possibility of keeping the current amount but allocating it differently over the year is at least an idea that doesn't require immediate dismissal, like reducing our children's free time even more does.

YABU OP. The issues you describe exist and are bad things, but they're a symptom of the underlying problem. Reducing the amount of holiday not only won't tackle that but it risks making our children's already disgracefully poor mental health worse.

You can keep the same number of holiday weeks, just space them out a bit

But that isn’t what OP wants!

Splitting the holidays would make holiday playschemes more difficult and more expensive as well.

I can buy things in bulk because we hire a space for one long period of time. If you have a smaller number of days then you have to buy smaller stuff (I already have a garage full of stuff most of the year round) which works out more expensive.

My paperwork would also be more difficult and time consuming. So you'd potentially be giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

We should be helping them have one by providing play spaces

THIS!!

Children need to be children. They need to play. They need to be creative and make their own fun.

We had a parent a number of years ago who removed their child from us (£15 a week at the time) and bitched about us a lot because "some kids came out with something they'd made everyday and X never did". That's because we don't make the kids do stuff. They get to choose which of the activities they do each day.

Children need to be children. They don't need to be in education even more. They need to play.

Ok @MerryChristmasHarry this is interesting.

If we keep the overall number of holidays allocated differently, will that - could that - alleviate child poverty?

My concern is that the same problems would be just better spread out over the year...

Yes I take everyone's point about this being a bigger issue about minimum wage and zero hours contract but these are outside of control and would take so long. We have to be urgent for those children who are really at the brunt of this.

Public money is public right - so we have an opportunity to start a change?

Yes I take everyone's point about this being a bigger issue about minimum wage and zero hours contract but these are outside of control and would take so long. We have to be urgent for those children who are really at the brunt of this.

Changing the entire education system (and childcare system as so many businesses and groups are set up and established) is not going to be a quick process.

Teaching contracts, support staff contracts, exam and assessment timetables.

It would take years to implement what you are suggesting.

You’d have to change nursery timetables, and potentially college and university years as well as they are all based on the academic year starting and finishing at a certain point.

So instead of fixing what needs to be fixed you'd rather fuck up schools,staff and children?

Because the real problem is too complicated and hard work?

I can't tell if you're being naive or goady, but do you seriously believe that even if everyone agreed with you, that scrapping school holidays would be a quick,straightforward ,smooth process? Not to mention it actually tackling poverty and inequality in a significant way.

I don't know. I just meant that might be an idea that isn't a priori wrong, unlike reducing it. Am open to discussions, having noted the comments about playscheme difficulties.

Ours does actually do two weeks at Whit half term and it's great, but comes off the Easter holiday which doesn't feel like enough. It's also primary.

It would be more expensive as well to have holiday lunch clubs spread through the year as well - again bulk buying is cheaper than smaller buying.

The problem lies elsewhere and not with school holidays. Schools should be there to educate.

The cost of living vs wages needs addressing
Having 2 working adults that still need to use food banks
The necessity for 2 adults to be full time working just to afford to live
Funding being wasted and spent in the wring areas

Surely children should be able to have a long summer holiday and enjoy being children ( and parents should want that too) , not forced to be in school because there parents can't afford for them not to be.

Yes I take everyone's point about this being a bigger issue about minimum wage and zero hours contract but these are outside of control and would take so long. We have to be urgent for those children who are really at the brunt of this.

The sort of changes you are talking about are massive and would take years to implement. You want to solve the relatively small number of children who aren’t getting enough to eat, by changing whole education systems for everyone, that have been in place for decades, rather than by providing targeted support for those in need?

I don’t want my children going to school all year around just because you have this bright idea. I don’t want teachers’ contracts changed-it would utterly destroy the profession, I don’t want our future adults having no holidays, play tome or downtime.

You would screw up generations of people in the name of equality. What’s ironic is that you will only be making the inequality much much worse.

Why not plug money into children’s centres and have them open and accessible to offer food and activities to those in need during the holidays?