To have gotten into this situation with car dealership and borrowed car?

[Carfarce]

We bought a used car from a dealership which within two weeks broke down due to major mechanical failure. On advice we took it back to dealership who agreed we would split repair costs (it wasn't really their fault, equally we did have some consumer protection) which seemed fair and amicable.

They told us the repairs would take 2-3 weeks and although we'd already been without a car for 2 weeks at this stage we were happy with this.

Today is the third week and from previous conversations we expected it back today or tomorrow but have been told it will now be another 2 weeks and a different remedy is proposed to that we agreed on (cheaper but not what we were advised by the AA and we aren't comfortable with it). We agreed to revert to original plan but the timescales won't be altered. This is we're told because it's August and people are away which we understand but would have appreciated communication so we knew what to expect.

The car dealership said we could have a courtesy car which we thought was reasonable and when we turned up a car was there, albeit it is filthy, dented, rusty, smelly etc. There is no formal agreement and although I am covered on their insurance for "test drives" I have found on calling my insurance I can't insure it fully comp as they suggested since I don't own the vehicle and therefore have no "insurance interest" according to my insurance company. They told us it was taxed but when we checked at home it isn't (maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt it just hasn't updated if they'd just done it)

So we now have this smelly vehicle on our drive and we don't know if it's taxed or insured (I will call the dealership in the morning before driving it) and I feel like a right idiot.

Is there an insurance solution in this scenario? I guess they can update their's to cover more but I'd like to see a copy. To be honest I'd like to return the damn thing as having no written courtesy agreement seems dodgy as hell. On the other hand we've already spent hundreds on hire cars and do need a vehicle really to get to appointments as public transport to one hospital we have attended for example takes four hours each way when it's otherwise a 40 minute drive.

They do seem trustworthy, just clueless in customer service. Their trust pilot reviews are excellent so just bad luck I guess.

Most car insurance claims are down to negligence by someone, whether it’s the driver or a third party. The whole point of fully comprehensive insurance is that it also covers damage to your car. Insurance would cover the resulting damage from the auxiliary belt snapping, in this case, because the damage to the OP’s car is not what would be expected, but they wouldn’t replace the belt itself. It’s no different to them repairing the resulting damage to a car that has had a blow out and had more damage than just a tyre.

I work in car hire, you should be covered on the dealerships own cover, COI (companies own insurance).

Their policy would cover customers driving it.

The company I work for has cover built into the price of our rentals.

Most main dealerships will sell used vehicles with a warranty as standard and only component failure will be covered (excluding serviceable items)

You mentioned that the belt snapped and caused consequential damage to the engine, given that the belt is a wear and tear serviceable item this would not be covered HOWEVER have you enquired with the dealership as to when the belt
Was last changed ... some are every 3-4 years and they would have a duty of care to check that these things have been replaced before selling you the vehicle. If for example it should have been replaced at 4 years and it Is now 6 years old I would be expecting the dealership to cover this.

As part of the used car prep process they will should have followed a check sheet and completed a report (usually caused a visual health check) which details the condition of the vehicle . You should ask to see this also

Is it a Renault? They are known for auxiliary belt failure caused by a worn tensioner.
The shredded belt then ends up in the timing belt, causing the valves inside the cylinder head to crash together. It's pretty unusual for this to cause bottom end engine damage.

If the garage are fitting a reconditioned engine, not second hand, then it sounds like you will be getting a good car in the end.

Re the courtesy car, google ask mid, you should be able to find out if the loan car is insured.

That's very interesting about insurance possibly covering the damage. I'll speak to insurers about that tomorrow

I will also do more research (beyond the helpfully provided links which I've already read) and consider revising our arrangement with dealership although for reasons given I'm not absolutely certain

Should say absolutely certain of best angle. I'd prefer to see the law in action to know how to approach

Be very careful about insurance on a courtesy car in such an environment. Something very similar gained me six points on my license, several years ago and the law is far stricter nowadays.

@SimplySteveRedux do you mind if I ask what happened? I'm sure that the cover is purely for test drives which is why I'm not happy with their own insurance since I'm not test driving it. They don't really do courtesy cars normally, it's a relatively small used car dealership (albeit with excellent reviews over a long period of time which is why we chose it ironically) and this is clearly just a vehicle that's just come in and is worth little so they don't mind me using it. Which is a terrible shame from a customer service point of view but not the point I suppose

You can’t claim on your insurance for mechanical faults it doesn’t work like that 🤦🏽‍♀️

That's what I thought. It was said with such confidence though I'm starting to doubt all my decisions and beliefs thus far!

OP you have faffed around and been taken for a ride long enough get firm with those sods, that engine has thrown a cam belt that normally wrecks the engine requiring an extensive rebuild its not your fault that happened rather the condition of the car.

Last time a Car main dealer, upmarket German one, gave me the run aroud found me parking the duff car across their entrance way not quite blocking it but enoufg for everyone coming in to see the placards attached ot the car and they were told what was going on.

The dealer was not much pleased and threatened to call the police I said go and do that then I fear nothing and don't one of you lay a finger on me as thats assult, we had a TV camera recording and I'll get a friend of mine who will have this in the media on Monday.

They went and had a meeting and decided they'd take the car back and a full refund of the orignal payment was in my bank on the Monday morn:)

Used car dealership, one of their courtesy cars, no formal written agreement. Assured all the particulars were in order. Few days in was pulled by a traffic car, and as insurance is strict liability I was prosecuted. The officer wasn't surprised, says it happens a lot and he hates people like me getting the penalty. What's always stayed with me is making sure there's a paper trail so any liability can be offset - worst case scenario being no penalty in court.

Although, there's so many dealerships now that use one of the bigger firms for courtesy cars.

I wouldn't be driving that shitheap around until you have physical documents in your hand. Insurance offences cause eye-watering premium rise, regardless of age.

Yes, I'm thinking I won't be driving it or at least not until I know for certain everything is done. I've checked MOT online, I can check tax again tomorrow and I'll do the insurance myself. What happened to you sounds awful, I'm sorry to hear it

I'd have to hoover the damn thing out before getting in it anyway

The dealership is down a country lane and not that busy so I don't think any parking or filming will make any difference and I don't particularly want to threaten them, I just want a fixed car back ASAP

To be honest, I would have expected the dealership to have fully serviced, checked and changed any worn belts on the car prior to you collecting the vehicle!

It's not a Renault, but loads of people have asked me if it's that or various other brands because it's apparently a known issue with loads of them

I can't sleep because I'm worried about next few weeks possibly without a car, although I suppose I can clean up and insure the smelly one outside

I'm not even that fussed about the half repair costs if we get the real car back soon, I loved it. I'm upset about the time frame but also being offered this as an alternative

The mileage was 78000, the car was 11K so you'd have thought they'd offer something halfway decent as a courtesy vehicle.

My new car is a Renault, picking it up in a couple of weeks. Eeeeek

Simplysteveredux I've not known it happen to a well maintained car.
Just make sure your new Renault has had a Timing Belt change and regular servicing. :)

11K for a car with 78,000 on the clock sounds soooo much. I know it's not really but jeez cars are expensive.

I was given an untaxed courtesy car once, before that I would have assumed all garages knew what they were doing enough to tax and insure properly for customer use.

The car was clamped while parked outside my house, the man doing the clamping said if I'd been driving at the time, it would have been me, not the garage, responsible for driving an untaxed car. Not having tax invalidates insurance so I would also have been driving without insurance (despite being covered 3rd party on my own).

On a courtesy/ hire car you are responsible for checking it's in a roadworthy condition. I also know someone who got points on his license because his hire car had worn tyres. You can't rely on the garage to check for you, if you gave concerns about the courtesy car make them take it back and give you another.

"they sold the vehicle in good faith and it was sound at the point of sale"

You've been given good advice, so I'll just point out that the above isn't relevant in the case of used cars.

There is a big duty of care on commercial sellers, that they haven't fulfilled.

I wondered if the dealership wasn't getting the repairs done on their own insurance, which is why there's a dely and what you are paying is partly the Excess.

My DP had a similar issue, so i read up on the law. The dealership did claim the repair on their insurance and we had to wait, but ended up with a car with 'new' reconditioned parts, which was better than what we were getting.

My Son in law, has a traders polucy, so his cars are covered to be driven by people over 25 etc. Which might apply to the borrowed car.

What car with 78 000 miles on the clock costs £11K?

As PP says, it is up to the seller to prove that the car/part was in good condition and not about to break in a few weeks, not up to the buyer to prove it wasn't.

If you bought a car and spent two weeks riding the clutch and caused it to 'go', the seller would have to prove it was your abuse of the clutch and not a fault that was developing when you bought it, in order for the seller not to be liable.

It's tough for the seller, but that's why you generally pay more when buying from a dealership - part of the cost covers their insurance. You do not have the same protection when buying from a private individual - it's more 'sold as seen'.

"It was said with such confidence though I'm starting to doubt all my decisions and beliefs thus far!" There's a lot of rubbish stated with 'such confidence' on MN. It's always a really good idea, possibly essential, to check whatever you read here. (Including my post, by the way!)

Have you tried honest John who writes for the Daily Telegraph? He's very good on all things car-related

Yes I know - I see so much bogus legal stuff spouted on here it drives me mad. Or any stuff really! I'm surprised I fell into that one

Which is why I want to be absolutely sure the specifics match up in this case because I don't think it's as simple as it sounds, but I'll take proper legal advice. On the other hand if we get the damn car back promptly I don't really care

It's a 4x4

Google trading standards act. I think it's 2015. They changed the law recently. Garages have one attempt to fix, at their cost and then you can claim your money back.

Sounds like no one checked the cam belt had been done on schedule. It's not due by mileage but if I remember, 5 years is the age due. May be on the first cambelt. From a brief scan, that's what the issue was.

Obviously a premium brand 4x4. Guessing q7 or ML type cars. Cambelt is a wearing part and you should have looked if due before. However this is something they will have to pay to fix or refund.

I'm not sure what you have been pulled in by previously in the thread but the above is factual.

You would be better to get a car like this on finance as they help you with issues like this and you are far safer.