To have gotten into this situation with car dealership and borrowed car?

[Carfarce]

We bought a used car from a dealership which within two weeks broke down due to major mechanical failure. On advice we took it back to dealership who agreed we would split repair costs (it wasn't really their fault, equally we did have some consumer protection) which seemed fair and amicable.

They told us the repairs would take 2-3 weeks and although we'd already been without a car for 2 weeks at this stage we were happy with this.

Today is the third week and from previous conversations we expected it back today or tomorrow but have been told it will now be another 2 weeks and a different remedy is proposed to that we agreed on (cheaper but not what we were advised by the AA and we aren't comfortable with it). We agreed to revert to original plan but the timescales won't be altered. This is we're told because it's August and people are away which we understand but would have appreciated communication so we knew what to expect.

The car dealership said we could have a courtesy car which we thought was reasonable and when we turned up a car was there, albeit it is filthy, dented, rusty, smelly etc. There is no formal agreement and although I am covered on their insurance for "test drives" I have found on calling my insurance I can't insure it fully comp as they suggested since I don't own the vehicle and therefore have no "insurance interest" according to my insurance company. They told us it was taxed but when we checked at home it isn't (maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt it just hasn't updated if they'd just done it)

So we now have this smelly vehicle on our drive and we don't know if it's taxed or insured (I will call the dealership in the morning before driving it) and I feel like a right idiot.

Is there an insurance solution in this scenario? I guess they can update their's to cover more but I'd like to see a copy. To be honest I'd like to return the damn thing as having no written courtesy agreement seems dodgy as hell. On the other hand we've already spent hundreds on hire cars and do need a vehicle really to get to appointments as public transport to one hospital we have attended for example takes four hours each way when it's otherwise a 40 minute drive.

They do seem trustworthy, just clueless in customer service. Their trust pilot reviews are excellent so just bad luck I guess.

Also I am insured with Tesco

I’m looking to buy a second hand car, having always had pcp deals before.
Today I was looking at different sites and what I was getting into etc. I wanted to know what happens if I buy something that then breaks down. Buying from a dealer - no matter how small - you are covered for 30 days for ANY FAULT. So full refund or free repairs. From 30 days to 6 months it’s slightly different.

After 2 weeks I would not be paying half and I would not be waiting this long for the repairs.

I have literally no idea why you agreed to go halves on the repairs. That is nuts. Would you have bought it if you had known that it would need a new engine within a few weeks?! Of course you wouldn't, so why are you not asking for your money back or at the very least for them to repair it for free? They are a business. It is their responsibility to ensure that a car they sell is fit for purpose. You have consumer protection and yet you're happy to go halves. Madness.

I'll need to call the dealership tomorrow re insurance anyway

What should I say?

Incidentally we'd had loads of advice to the event that it was just bad luck and although there was an argument on consumer protection we'd probably face a lengthy court process

Assuming any claim is worth less than £10,000, then you'd be in small claims court territory and each side would bear its own costs - you wouldn't have to pay the other side's costs if you lost.

Check if you have legal expenses cover on any insurance policy and sue the garage. You're wholly in the right here.

I would talk to tradingvstamdards first thing in the morning and say that you’re really really unhappy and feel that you are being ripped off, not least because of the other red flags that have come up since agreeing the original repairs (timescales, change of plan without agreeing it with you first, dirty untaxed replacement car etc) - none of those bode well for the car being sorted properly in a timely manner.

I would be finding out if you are withi your tights to reject the car now, get your money back and find something else to buy ASAP.

I would also make sure you have a screenshot showing the the car was not taxed or insured as soon as possible to the time that they delivered it to you. (Or did you drive it directly from them?)

I would also check tax/mot status again online tonight and tomorrow morning (in case as you say they did it from their company when you picked it up and took a while to run through the system).

I would also take lots of pictures and videos to document the condition of the car so they can’t claim it was perfect when they gave it to you - also remember to describe the smell and even record it driving/being driven a short way if it makes bad noises or does anything odd - and send it to them in the morning so they can’t try to get you to pay for anything to do with the courtesy car.

Good luck!

I think on the 30 days point the dealership would claim it was caused by a wearing part which is exempt and that it doesn't really apply

So it's easy to say just return the car and they have to accept it but it's not that simple

Even with a used car you have a right to rejection. I had this EXACT thing happen 2 days after I bought an expensive vehicle. Wrote a strongly-worded legal-looking letter after much research and I got a full refund. You can exercise your "right to reject" the vehicle. It doesn't matter if it was "sound" or not at point of sale as not all issues manifest when the vehicle is driven off the forecourt and you have 6 months to reject it.

Here's some resources for you to read through so you can choose the best course of action depending on your circumstances:

Your right to reject a used car in the first 6 months: www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/

A helpful letter template to reject a used car: www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-rejecting-a-second-hand-car-bought-from-a-dealer

theusedcarguy.co.uk/car-scams/sold-as-seen-we-think-not/

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1681086&i=20

www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122489/16/687/d

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/ (scroll past the info about new cars to get to the used cars).

Road Traffic Act (it's an offence to supply a vehicle that's unroadworthy. Needing a new engine makes it unroadworthy and you should reasonably expect it to work for more than 2 weeks before needing a new engine): www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

How to claim the money back through your bank if they refuse a refund: www.money.co.uk/guides/chargeback-claims-how-to-get-your-money-back.htm

There's so much you can do about this! But the sooner you take action the more rights you have.

Oh and one of those links (the one ending "sold as seen we think not") covers the facts if your dealer, like mine, bunged "spares or repairs" on the receipt after letting you think it was roadworthy (it's basically unenforceable).

It wasn't their fault since it was a chain event of a small unpredictable failure ultimately leading to engine failure.

New engine 2 weeks after purchase?

Unless you've missed out a massive chunk of the story, you have been sold a lemon. And to rub salt into the wound you've been given a shit courtesy car.

They sound like a bunch of cowboys - and it's because of places like this why people are fearful of the used car market.

Why did you agree to fund 50% of the repairs?

Please insist on a refund and walk away.

@WhatTiggersDoBest

What a comprehensive post, I'm well impressed. Blimey I'll remember to look you up if I need some advice to get £££ back.

You are being very coy about what happened to the engine.
At a guess a hose split you lost your coolant but instead of stopping you drove the car running hot until it stopped with a cracked/ warped head.

If this is the case I can see why the garage is saying it’s not really there fault as a hose can go at any theme it’s what you do when it does happen that can minimise the damage. So they are being fare offering to pay half unless they knew it had a problem before they sold it to you.
Recon engine is the way to go. As the damage is throughout the engine but this would cost £2000+ depending on car. But is really only a 1-2 day job changing it.

@WhatTiggersDoBest thank you, that's very helpful. I'd read one or two of those links. Our concern was that we'd been told that because the incident was started by a wearing part, it would be exempt. The onus would be on the garage to prove they'd checked the vehicle was correctly maintained, but we'd need to start legal action.

The cost of hiring a car while it went through courts etc would be the same as the reduced 50/50 cost, although I suppose we could buy a cheaper car in the interim and sell it after we'd hopefully won in court.

To be quite honest we felt like an amicable way forwards with the car repaired and returned to us in a couple of weeks was a fair resolution and didn't have much interest in legal proceedings as I've been involved in them through work and know what it can be like.

The insulting courtesy car situation and delays have made us feel rather different, though.

@NurseButtercup it's the post I wish I'd been able to read when this happened to me in June. I was so scared of taking on a big used car dealer and my head was full of what I thought they'd do to get out of refunding me but after I laid out the facts, and I suggested I ought to report them to trading standards, they caved and paid up.

@Carfarce I was sure I was going to have to take them to court but they just refunded, so you might be able to get it sorted without it going that far. I ended up buying a much cheaper runaround and it's run beautifully. I really hope it works out for you whatever you decide to do about it all!

Wear and tear items are not covered under any warranty. Provided the garage can prove they couldn’t have reasonably been expected to replace the part before the vehicle was sold it is very unlikely a claim would be accepted under the sale of goods act. I haven’t read every comment, but is it a drive chain by any chance?

As for the insurance of a courtesy car, they have no obligation whatsoever to provide insurance. If your insurance company won’t give you temporary insurance swap it from your car to the courtesy car and back again. You do not need to own the vehicle to be able to insure it, just be the keeper, which you are.

I do think that if we'd been more forthright in the first place and just insisted on our money back then we would be in a stronger position but we'd been told it would be difficult from the wearing part point of view and we were genuinely ok with a swiftish repair because it was a shit situation all round and we are reasonable

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and now I feel a fool

We have enough savings to buy something small in the interim but I wanted a bigger safe car for our DS and hesitant to use up all our savings when we have big life events coming up if dealership don't just pay up quickly

@Tarqs yes, that's what we'd been told

The dealership is taking you for a right mug and you are letting them do it.

Hmmm. I’ve just seen the belt post. Did the car have history? How many miles? Most need the belts down around 7/8 years.

I may feel a fool but I don't think the dealership are taking us for mugs. I think they think they are being very reasonable but are really clueless about customer service

As Tarqs said, we'd been told a claim would be tricky. Does that also apply to the Consumer protection regs though?

It's interesting that my insurer sounds like they were wrong about the "insurance interest" though

You do have insurable interest in the courtesy car.

Insurable interest is where you would suffer financial loss if the item was damaged or destroyed. If this happens you would have to replace or repair it so you have insurable interest. However the insurance company is under no obligation to cover other vehicles.

Did you pay for it in full or is it on finance? If it’s on finance or credit card you have more rights than if you paid cash or debit card.
I really cannot understand why you agreed to pay half for repairs to a car you should have had a full refund on! You’re not even getting the car you bought back, you’re getting the shell with most of the main parts replaced. Is the engine older or newer than the one that was in it? What’s the difference in the mileage on the engine? Have you asked these questions? Where are they getting the second hand engine from?

They're in no sense reasonable taking anything off you for repairs on a vehicle they sold you TWO WEEKS before it completely broke. Absolutely not.