..to think that £6.15 an hour...

[BertrandRussell]

.....really is shit wages?

It's a disgrace for anyone over the age of 18.

Aldi pay nearly £10 an hour...

Aldi pay nearly £10 an hour..

For which they expect to own you body and soul...

Exactly op

I used to be a size ten, not now!

Ireland’s min wage is 9.70 I think but living wage is 11.80. (Which a lot of employers I know pay) for example a friend of mine is a cleaner in a pharmaceutical company and gets 12 per hour. Another friend I know is night staff In a half way house and gets 12 an hour (and they sleep!). I’m a teacher and I get over 30 an hour (not that far up in the pay scale either!). I think wages in the uk are horrendous to be honest. The prices of things here aren’t massively different either!

Wow, that's impressive!

The minimum wage for 16- 18 is 4.35 and if I found a job offering that I would be really pleased.

Where are you looking bored15?
Try indeed and go through the filters to get part time. I'd say try McDonald's, KFC etc. Also local jobs like chippys, waitressing etc, it'll give you experience and something to put on a cv.

Good luck.

Without stating any political views, swathes of the UK voted for Brexit for the simple reason that the first non-mother tongue universally taught is English, so the UK is a magnet economy for the accession states of Europe, central Asia and much of Africa.

Locally, wages have been kept artificially low by the number of new immigrants arriving keen to work, with education/skills far better than those of local kids. Plus the new arrivals are not expecting much more than a start in life. It's hard to fault their determination, but also hard to disagree with employers who prefer to hire keen people rather than sulky phone-obsessed teens who want to be on Love Island.

On our industrial estate there are several high tech labs whose employees are all graduate scientists from mostly accession countries, or labourers and drivers from the local school. Not much in between . We need our bog-standard schools to do better by their less-academic students, but it's a much, much more expensive approach and no government of the last 40 years has really thought about filling the skill shortages, just hired nurses and electricians.. and doctors and dentists and brickies, and the rest of the trades, from other countries.

We need our bog-standard schools to do better by their less-academic students, but it's a much, much more expensive approach and no government of the last 40 years has really thought about filling the skill shortages, just hired nurses and electricians.. and doctors and dentists and brickies, and the rest of the trades, from other countries.

A "trades/technical" school near us was built but closed after a few years because it was unpopular with kids and parents. Quite simply, not enough pupils enrolled for it so it wasn't viable. A massive waste of money.

I think a lot of kids/parents are in denial and believe the crap of "you can be what you want to be" leaving them thinking they're going to be the next David Beckham or Katie Price, or an astronaut. So they discount good solid jobs like the trades as too hard work and dirty as they've been led to believe they're better than that. Completely missing the point that properly trained with qualifications, the trades can provide a good, above average, living.

My dc sixth form now does vocational courses as well, we always need vocational courses.

We don't have a good attitude to vocational subjects. It's always seen as something for someone else's kids.

It's certainly true that going to university and getting a (often worthless) degree Thad been sold to us as the be all and end all for far too long.
I'd love to have truly valued, vocational training available for our kids who aren't cut out for university. Instead it's seen as an option for those who aren't clever enough for university, rather than an equally valuable alternative for people who don't want or need to go.

University needs to go back to bring for careers that actually need a degree, rather than the default option.

Interesting. My ds is adamant that he doesn’t want to go to university. So are several of his friends. All from what would be considered traditional university backgrounds.

We don't have a good attitude to vocational subjects. It's always seen as something for someone else's kids.

Nothing changes - it was the same 40 years ago when I was at school. There was a straight A pupil in our class - the sixth form head just couldn't understand why he wasn't engaging with the UCAS sessions - he was adament he wanted to be a plumber and work under his plumber father. He was put under an enormous amount of pressure to go to uni by the teachers. In reality, he joined his father and got his plumbing qualifications. He's now living in an expensive house in the most expensive area of town, with a brand new BMW as well as his brand new Merc works van, and still doing his plumbing as a one-man band. I see him regularly and now, at 55 years, he's already started reducing his working hours and plans to retire fully by 60! Basically, he's happy and certainly hasn't regretted not going to uni and getting a "proper" career!!!

But vocational subjects aren’t just trades. Being an accountant, teacher or medic is a vocation. Are you suggesting university should be purely academic ie not prepare you for any job?

Instead it's seen as an option for those who aren't clever enough for university

And peer pressure at parental level. My own sister went through this with her two kids, neither of which were "academic" and both got pretty low grades in GCSEs. She couldn't face "losing face" of them going to the local college, so she went out of her way to find a sixth form that would take them, and neither stuck it the 2 years, so ended up at college anyway, but again, she pushed them into more "professional" courses rather than trades, which again, they failed to complete the courses, so ended up wasting 3 years and getting nowhere. Now, one is a cleaner and the other a van driver. Had they had parental "push" towards more trade/technical courses, they'd have done far better, but parental attitude meant they had to keep being pushed towards more professional/office courses they had no aptitude for, all for bragging rights with her peer group!

Yes it's rubbish money whatever your age and circumstances. Even the minimum wage for the over 25s (£8 something) is crap. How can you support a family, pay bills, childcare rent etc on that pay

So people are actually better off on universal credit imo

The frustrating thing about vocational education is that many schools had to restrict the subjects offered because they didn’t count towards league tables. Ds’s school has a very high % of lower ability kids, and used to be able to offer BTecs in construction , mechanics.hospitality and horticulture. All of which were a real step towards employment in our area. It can’t offer them any more because they don’t count for league tables.

16-18 year olds are supposed to be at college or doing an apprenticeship. Therefore anything they earn at that age is a bonus as theoretically they should be subsidised by their parents. I'm not saying that happens in all cases but it is supposed to.

@BertrandRussell, like your son, my DS did A levels last year but didn't want to take any of his academic studies further so while he is deciding what he want to be/see/do next, he's a junior chef in a posh hotel. He started work on £5.90 MW; a year on, he has skills, he's demonstrated resilience and a work ethic, and is about to earn £22k basic. The hours are gruelling, though. But he could walk into a professional kitchen, or a pub, or cafe, chalet or any hospitality company anywhere in the world and walk out employed.

DH and his dad are tradesmen. Well FIL is now retired. Neither them nor me would encourage towards trades, though DH would welcome and train any of them if they really were intent on the idea.

Dd was paid that last year for a supposed teaching assistant role at children’s drama classes. In reality she was often given sole responsibility for a group of kids whilst the main teacher worked with another group next door. The Facebook group which advertises such jobs specifies £10 per hour minimum to advertise with them for a TA role & £20 per hour for a teacher.

Luckily this year she’s been offered a similar job with Stagecoach paying £16.50 per hour!

Luckily this year she’s been offered a job with Stagecoach

There is quite a few unies accepting grades D in Alevel.
I am not surprised at the amount of stress many students face when they 1)were pushed to go to uni even though they are not made for it and 2)already had obviously issues with academic side of things if they got Ds (unless there are some extenuating circumstances) so they will just suffer further.

Imho it's mainly parent's attitude towards it all which needs to change. There is no shame in not being to uni.
Having 2:2 or third in some degree is imho shittier for future than getting yourself an apprenticeship and learning skills and gaining experience through that. For many it could also be better for their MH imho.

it's mainly parent's attitude towards it all which needs to change

And employers, And schools/teachers, And society at large.

Tony Blair's stupid aim of 50% going to Uni perpetuated the rot 20 years ago, but it really started with the abolition of the sec mod/grammar system 50 years ago which took away the ability for huge numbers of non academic kids to learn vocational skills at school.