..to think that £6.15 an hour...

[BertrandRussell]

.....really is shit wages?

But I do think being a student is different to being a working person.

To some extent yes, but being 18 and on NMW, isn't different from your peers - your work mates etc, or your school friends who will mostly be in the same boat. Except, many of them won't, they'll be worse off on apprenticeships or as students. With most "is it enough money" threads, it comes down to comparisons with those around you.
I, for example don't feel hard done by aI haven't got a private jet or a luxury yacht, as it just doesn't enter my radar - I don't mix in those circles. Nor do I feel that I've missed out as I'd never been able to afford to send my dc to private schools or to own horses or to fly first (or even business) class, as, once again, none of the people I mix with do any of those things. 'Not having enough money' becomes an issue if you are genuinely hungry, of course, but, in terms of 'speniding money once bills are covered, it only becomes an issue if you mix with and compare with people who are all better off than you. If you are the one who has more money than your peers (which would be the case for many 18 yr olds working FT), then it isn't the issue that a bunch of MNers think it is.

Subsidised bars for students are only at the SU! Most 2nd and 3rd year students go to the normal pubs and clubs frequented by locals. They buy food at the same supermarkets as other people, fares aren't often subsidised for students only.

Don't forget courses are supposed to involve full time study, whether that's lectures, self-directed, or practical on the job learning like healthcare.

I'm really not sure why we should expect an 18 year old full time student to have lower costs and standard of living than an 18 year old working full time on NMW.

As I said, fair enough. I just think it would be easier to live happily on less money as a student than as an 18 year old on MW in a town they don’t know. Which is what many people were advocating- travel to find work and affordable accommodation.

Ds will be doing a job he has specific skills for

Is DS Liam Neeson?

Minimum wage for 18 - 20 year old.

Under 18 it's 4.35; 21 - 24 it's £7.70 and 25 and over it's £8.21.

After Brexit when we lose our EU employment rights and employers don't have to follow them I suspect the minimum wage won't exist.

terrible, sorry, what a world

It’s a disgusting wage 😐😐 how does one cope!!!

It gives employers an incentive to employ people for roles who likely have less experience than others; wrongly so, but they are businesses who have to make money to stay afloat. It works for the advantage of the worker though as they have more chance of getting the job.

The Young Women's Trust has an insightful report about the age wage disparity for anyone interested. It's called the Paid Less Not Worth Less Campaign, if you Google it the report should come up.

*DS (also 16) qualified as a lifeguard and earns about £6.40 a hour!

That's about 50p an hour more than I earned as a qualified lifeguard c1989 age 16-17. I got £7/h for teaching swimming (also qualified), and it was substantially more than waiting tables or stacking supermarket shelves would have got me at the time.

I would have expected lifeguard pay to have gone up rather more in 30 years*

Teachers get about £20 an hour at our local pool. Not sure what the lifeguards get there as ds works for a different one. I think that David Lloyd pay about £12/h but not sure they'd take a 16 year old (though ds hasn't asked). But now you have said that I might tell him to look elsewhere. His 6th form college-to-be has a pool so there may be scope for him to do the odd shift there.

MW is generally pathetic and unlivable. Still a marked improvement on what I earned at 18 which worked out about £1.50 an hour. (around 97/98).

Love the idea that you £6 per hour is a reasonable wage if l you’re doing is sticking stamps on a handful of envelopes at home. Please tell me where I can get this job and I’ll quit work for this alternative!!

WellTidy
Yes i worked as a chambermaid 89/90
18 rooms at such a shit rate relied on tips that were stolen by the housekeepers,
At a very posh hotel with a R
Treated like shit as well
Try not to think of thoes days.

*If he’s part time, while going to college as well, that’s effectively an apprenticeship”

No it’s not. Apprenticeship and the ultra low permitted minimum wage has strong governance and clear definitions as to what an apprenticeship is. Otherwise unscrupulous employers can just say it’s an apprenticeship and pay less than minimum wage!

It’s plenty for a teenager who just wants some pocket money. Nowhere near enough for an adult who has bills to pay!

Hmm - so maybe wages should be means tested by reference to outgoings

And if they're working full time NMW is enough to house, transport, feed and entertain them independent of parental help

Let’s see the budget allocation for this!

But I do think being a student is different to being a working person.

No council tax. That's a chunk of change right there, a not insignificant one, either.

Let’s see the budget allocation for this!

Already done. Would leave around £100 a week for food, travel and entertainment. Which is what most students live on, if not less.

No council tax. That's a chunk of change right there, a not insignificant one, either.

Yes true. Let's say £1500 a year between four people house sharing - about £10 a week each.

Yes true. Let's say £1500 a year between four people house sharing - about £10 a week each.

Even the lowest band in Glasgow, properties from the value of £27-35K, which will not be a 4-bed house share, is £1036/annum, it's not an insignificant sum to someone who is already struggling and doesn't get travel discounts are they are not a student, but keep banging that drum there, titchy, it's not the same as being a student when you're 18 and working FT for £6/hour. .

Students don't pay council tax. That would save about £2000/annum even on band A in most councils. Students get discounted travel costs and discounted rates on many things including banking accounts. Students also get into debt to live. Students' parents are still expected to sub them well into their 20s

Which is why the ‘students managantra is largely inapplicable

Just because things were even shitter in the past doesn’t make them not shit now

I agree - the thread represents a dizzying and depressing race to the bottom

Bertrand - YANBU

My 17 year old gets £8 an hour she works in a pub waitressing. My 16 year old works in local bakery and gets £4.50 an hour.

Also students usually go home for holidays. A break when they don’t generally pay for food or laundry and so on. And a break from “managing”. Managing for a term at a time is a very different thing from managing all the time.

Or worry about hearing and hot water.

It's bloody hard to live on that in the North West as well