To think re-marking GCSE shouldn't be a 'no win, no fee' style gamble?

[MarvellousMonsters]

Eldest has just got GCSE results, all 7, 8, 9 so we are very happy with them. However today we got emails saying some are within 2 marks of the next grade, and we can have them re-marked. The catch is, if the grade stays the same we will have to pay £50 per paper, (if the grade goes up there's no charge) and each GCSE has 2 or 3 papers, meaning asking for re-marking is effectively gambling £200-£300 per GCSE.

A friend is a teacher at a different school and they don't charge anything for re-marking.

Is our school BU?

0.01% overall doesn’t seem excessive

Where did you get that figure from?

21% of papers that were submitted for remarking were given a higher grade.

There were a lot of papers that were not submitted for remarking. If you listen to the More or Less episode I linked to, it clearly shows that there are significant errors in the raw score given to papers. That was from a large sample of papers - and varied depending on the subject.

However, this error is not going to have a big effect on the grade, unless it's near a grade boundary.

People always assume maths marking should be 100% accurate because it’s either right or wrong but it’s not like that at all.

Any question that has a single answer for a single mark is computer read and marked rather than by a human.

Anything worth 2 or more marks is usually because there are marks awarded for method. There are usually multiple methods that can be used to solve a problem and often students have got the answer wrong but have got some correct working so markers then have to work out how many marks to award for the working done. Sometimes students will use 2 different methods and so then the marker has to figure out both methods and try to match it to the mark scheme. It can be fiddly and time consuming and someone else may interpret the working differently to me. I always tell my students- the marker has no idea what is going on in your head and what your line of thinking is as you solve a problem. All we see is an assortment of numbers and symbols and we have to try and figure out if you were solving the problem in the correct way before a mistake was made.

Some students also have handwriting that is terrible and so figuring out what numbers are can be tricky!

People always assume maths marking should be 100% accurate because it’s either right or wrong but it’s not like that at all

Too true. I wonder what the variation in 6 mark questions are.

@chomalungma I mark foundation and often find students either know what they are doing and so achieve 5 or 6 marks, or they are flustered by the lack of structure in the big mark questions and so get 0 or 1. Very few times do I end up award 3 or 4 marks. I don’t know about levels of accuracy but I can tell you that when my marking deadline is up there are always thousands of the 6 mark questions left as extra marking because everyone hates doing them!

Exam board marking is extremely stringent. Your not just left to mark exams alone. You mark hundreds of the same questions over and over with planted questions in there that if you get wrong, you have to stop and discuss with a team leader.
Whereas every person I know who has examined for English GCSE this year has said it's been an absolute shit show, seeded scripts significantly worse than training materials and sample materials for schools were getting much higher marks at random, others were excellent but scoring low marks. Most people I know who've always said exam marking was useful CPD have left this year feeling like they are even more unclear about exam board standards in places than before they marked.

These are experienced teachers and experienced examiners.

For English there were loads of outstanding papers unmarked just before the deadline and markers were being begged to mark a few more.

I always said I'd examine the new spec for CPD but every year the feedback from colleagues suggests it's simply not worth it.

Do they have quality control for scripts?

I would have standard scripts put into the ones that are sent out - and then see how what scores they get. Examiners get the same standard scripts - but they can't tell that they are quality control scripts.

Is that the kind of thing they do - just to see the quality of marking?

Our school (private) passes in the charge.
If you already have high marks I wouldn’t bother paying for a review. What’s the difference in the long run between 7, 8 or 9? Unless your child is not going to do A levels or IB, it’s not going to matter as those grades will be the ones that count, not GCSEs.

@chomalungma the chief examiner marks some items and then they are discussed at the moderators meeting with marking team leaders. Some of these are then used to train ordinary markers. We have to mark 20 of each question during a standardisation process and discuss any anomalies with our team leader before we are cleared to mark. Anyone who wasn’t accurate enough would not be allowed to mark.

Then during live marking there are a number of “seeds” planted throughout the system. These are items already marked by the chief examiner but the marker doesn’t know. If you don’t get the same as them on that item you are locked out of marking and have to talk to your team leader. They make a decision on whether to allow you to continue marking that item. If you make a mistake 3 times on the same question you are locked out permanently.

At the end of marking your are given a seed failure rate and graded on the accuracy of your marking. You are only award contracts in future if you are above a certain level.

Thanks.

Standard quality control then.

@chomalungma all marking for my subject is done on screen. I mark around 500 papers but I will do all 500 question 3s for example, then move on and mark 500 questions 7s etc. I don’t know who each item belongs to and can’t see a candidates full paper unless I request it because I believe they have written something on a different part of the paper to the one I can see on screen.

all marking for my subject is done on screen. I mark around 500 papers but I will do all 500 question 3s for example

That's a lot of question 3's

Do you ever fall asleep?

@chomalungma yes! Especially as this year I was fitting marking around a 2 year old and a newborn!

It depends on the question as to how I mark, if it’s an easy one I will do all 500 in one go which can take me 30-60 minutes. A bigger mark one I tend to do 100 and then do 100 of an easy one, then come back to it. I never have more than 3 questions in progress at once as I like to make sure I have a really good understanding on the mark scheme for one item at a time.

500 of one question can take anything from 30 minutes to the longest this year being 4 hours on a pie chart!

I budget myself 2 hours an evening and 4 hours on a weekend day to get it all done over 2.5 weeks. I then mark the calculator paper straight after so it’s around 1000 scripts per exam series. Quite a nice little money earner to say I can do it in my pj’s on the sofa!

No you pay if a mistake has not been made. Surely that’s obvious.

A friend (former teacher) has done exam marking and the sheer volume of marking in the time available is phenomenal and the rate of pay could easily fall below minimum wage. There are control scripts at random intervals but the marker can spot them after the first few. Markers have been pulled but then this increases the workload on the others. Many of the markers are still teaching in their day jobs as it is done in late June and July. Can easily see how differences in results creep in

Maryscary

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/28/examiners-lefthorrified-byflaws.englishgcse-marking/

Sorry - can't link but there's one on around P19 of the thread.

But see Cherrypavlova's comment re the journalist.

@fiftiesmum yes the pay can be poor if the paper takes a long time to mark. Maths is fairly decent though once you are experienced as you become much quicker. I averaged around £30 an hour for my non calculator one this year but only £22 for the calculator- still well above minimum wage. You are right that a lot of markers are current serving teachers marking around their day job. Schools like us to do it to get experience of mark schemes but it can be difficult fitting it in.

My child missed out on an A* by one mark, so the school chose to send it away to be re-marked. They paid.

We knew it was only one mark but weren’t bothered as child was happy with the A. As it turned out the paper got upgraded.

Maths and science are more clear cut but trying to read the handwriting and sentence structures in other subjects can take up a lot of time and then trying to fit to the mark scheme.

@Witchend and @tigerwhocanefortea, thank you that’s much more helpful. He’s two marks of an 8 and has been accepted for the a-level. I feel less guilty about agreeing to the review now, it does seem to make sense for the school to request a review in that case.

I’m aware of another parent who’s insisting that other than English and Math (they don’t want to risk his pass) that all her dc’s other papers are reviewed. That’s going to cost a fortune! Our school will only cover reviews that they have asked if the children will consent to.

In my school, outside of borderline English and maths parents pay. Or the department's do. This disadvantages small dept with tiny budgets...

On the whole we pay to get papers back but not for remarks and the school would always pay for PP.

At my school, if we think the child has a real chance of the grade going up then we pay. If not, but they are within a couple of marks of the next boundary, we tell them and give them the option of paying for a remark.

Schools really are struggling financially so I’m not surprised the cost is pasted onto parents in many cases. I’m a teacher and will advise if I think a remark might be good idea, but ultimately it’s up to the parents if they want to pay or not. School can’t afford to. In the past they have paid if it was in the interest of the school e.g if a pupil got 4 grade Cs and needed the magic 5th C. However, even this has stopped now. Schools just simply do not have the money.

I marked English Language. There was only of the seeds that was dubious. I found it very useful. After the original deadline there was no begging to continue. I am going to do it again I think. The controversy did seem to be about the other paper, however I found the whole experience very valuable. Even though some student responses made me feel old!

I will be checking my childs marks to see if they were just under the next grade

My eldest was a mark or two off a higher grade in one of their exams but refused outright to go for a remark

GrammarTeacher
Did you do AQA English Language and which paper did you do out of interest? I've heard nothing but issues from most people I know who marked this year