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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Michaela School and behaviour - AIBU

987 replies

herculepoirot2 · 23/08/2019 10:36

AIBU to think that you might read this behaviour policy and think it is authoritarian and unnecessary, but to also think that, with results four times better than the national average, these people might have a point about the benefits to young people of being expected to work hard and behave well?

mcsbrent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Behaviour-Policy-11.02.19.pdf

OP posts:
kesstrel · 27/08/2019 10:29

Michaela are almost certainly turning a profit.

Well, I suppose they are unlikely to have a PTA raising money for them, let alone the situation in some wealthy schools where parents set up regular standing orders for donations. I think it's unlikely any "profit" is going to the teachers' pockets, so maybe it's fair enough if it contributes to making the school better.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:29

The Michaela plant was a joke! even though I know they exist

I don't remotely think that is what kesstrel is. Nonetheless, Chloe's actual first hand experience has been dismissed because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:30

But Michaela do have a PTA!

PinkFlowerFairy · 27/08/2019 10:31

The one near me has same day detentions for every 30mins of homework not done, (3 x30mins daily) and daily tests on selfquizzing, detentions if they dont make the mark.

They're v clear to parents that's what theyre signing up for though. And even say as a plus parents dont have to get involved in homework as they can do it in homework club or just do it the next day in detention.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:31

They do teach art in quite a non standard way.

I suspect they just can't recruit good (any) Comp Sci teachers.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:33

That sounds very familiar pink. In an area of high social deprivation, that makes sense.

kesstrel · 27/08/2019 10:33

I think kesstral’s been on MN too long to be a Michaela plant.

Thanks, Rafal! Grin

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:34

Although what Michaela and others do, rather than detention is supervised'prep' , so homework is never not done.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:37

I'm not sure free schools can be teaching schools noble ? but the one near me is beginning to act like one. Which is both a good and bad thing.

kesstrel · 27/08/2019 10:39

Nonetheless, Chloe's actual first hand experience has been dismissed because it doesn't fit the narrative.

No, I've merely pointed out that 3 data points does not constitute a large enough sample on which to base sweeping generalisations. It's a question of objectivity and trying to take a fair and balanced view when looking at very limited evidence.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 27/08/2019 10:42

The KO as homework idea is growing on me. It’s an effective form of revision, you only need a pen and an exercise book to do it and it’s very light on teacher workload once you’ve done the initial work on thinking about what goes on the KO.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2019 10:44

The fact that they apparently have so many people going around for a gawp niggles somewhat. It’s a school not a tourist attraction - how much will visitors actually learn that couldn’t be learned more effectively and less instrusively in a series of videos on youtube?

herculepoirot2 · 27/08/2019 10:45

Well, this has been very interesting. I will bow out now because I have another commitment, but I hope the discussion goes on!

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 10:49

KOs are good in some subjects. their primary purpose isn't meant to be for homework, apparently.

I have seen some excellent ones, and some shocking ones.

ChloeDecker · 27/08/2019 11:03

Not sure what you have to buy kestral. Just taking part in the discussion and saying what I have seen. When we arrived in the morning, there was a session with a teacher and some pupils with information about the day and what their ethos was. Then there was time for three lessons before lunch, which we were invited to and a chance to speak to the Head afterwards.
The visits or ‘tours’ follow this schedule and right from the outset, questions are encouraged, at least, that was what my Head and I were told (and yes, my Head did pay but I don’t know how much-I can ask next week) and we were not the only ones in our tour group. There were plenty of questions answered honestly and with a smile (I really don’t have an agenda-I have in fact implemented already some of what I saw). It was my last one of something like ‘I teach Computer Science and I’m interested in how Michaela would approach that, do you have any advice? I was responded to by her without a smile, like other’s questions that she would have to leave it there and we would be escorted out by a pupil. As I have said earlier in this thread, it just left us with an odd feeling. That’s all. For me to make comparisons with my experience, it would have been helpful, but you are right, I should not have expected it.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2019 11:08

Then there was time for three lessons before lunch

How did this work? Were you there the whole lesson or did you just stand at the back for 5 minutes?

I’m trying to picture a school where there are regular group tours. Open Mornings for parents are bad enough!

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2019 11:08

The problem with knowledge organisers in maths is that you cannot learn maths by reading about it, and we don’t want to encourage our students to think that they can!

ChloeDecker · 27/08/2019 11:13

We were there the whole of each of the lessons, yes! They were quite open about letting people in and I didn’t get the impression they wanted to hide any aspect of the teaching and learning.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2019 11:22

How many people in your group? I can barely fit the kids into my classroom!

After these results they’re going to have way more people wanting to come. Wonder if they’ll change their policy.

Piggywaspushed · 27/08/2019 11:22

I visited nearly every lesson in the (similar) school on one of my visits : every subject (no computing!) except PE and music. I did not hear a single child speak, other than to read aloud (and, to be honest, they were inaudible). It was a culture shock, to be sure!

ChloeDecker · 27/08/2019 11:26

How many people in your group? I can barely fit the kids into my classroom!

We were each in different classes but together for arrival, lunch and chat afterwards. There were 5 of us.

kesstrel · 27/08/2019 11:27

I can see several problems with videos instead of visits. the most obvious one is that people will assume it's all stage-managed to give the best view. Plenty of people already assume that when they hear about the visits, assert that the students doing the showing around have been "programmed" etc.

SansaSnark · 27/08/2019 11:31

Going back a bit to the discovery vs knowledge thing, as a science teacher, I agree that part of the problem with discovery learning is that often you don't get the right results. Students are also far more likely to remember the process of doing the practical than what they found or the theory they are trying to link it to- in many ways, this makes sense. There are only so many things you can focus on at once!

FWIW, I'm not advocating scrapping practicals in science. I think it's really important to teach children about the scientific method and useful techniques (such as using a microscope)- but often that has to be the point of the lesson - the learning objective is "this is how we use a microscope". I do also think they have a role in getting students interested in and enthusiastic about science. And sometimes, they can learn things from them!

There's a practical that's often used to illustrate the relationship between surface area to volume ratio and the uptake of substances via diffusion. You use different sized cubes/cubiods of agar and a liquid, often something brightly coloured such as potassium permanganate and measure the time it takes to diffuse to the middle of the cube.

It's pretty reliable, and an able class can use this to figure out that in an object with a large surface area to volume ratio, diffusion happens quickly, and in one with a small surface area to volume ratio, diffusion happens slowly.

However, in a less able or even middle ability class, what can happen is:
-Many students have to be taught/reminded how to work out the volume and surface area of a cube.
-Many students don't fully understand ratios.

  • Many students have forgotten what diffusion is/how it works.

These are all barriers to discovering the intended outcome, and if you're a student in that class who doesn't know how to work out the surface area of a cube, then you're never going to reach the intended learning outcome. So knowledge is required, even for discovery learning.

I work in a county where many parents don't really have a choice of school- effectively, usually, they can only access the closest school (rural county with lots of small towns and many children using buses etc to get to school). It's also an area with deprivation and low aspiration- in some schools at least. I would be intrigued to see how the model could work in an area like this!

I agree that the CompSci issue may partly be the shortage of teachers, especially specialist Computing teachers rather than IT teachers. It's also an expensive subject to resource. The same may well go for geography (although it's cheaper to teach).

I don't really object to the school fundraising though- many state schools in affluent areas ask their parents for voluntary contributions, for example and have active/successful PTAs. By fundraising in other ways, they're presumably intending to bridge this gap?

kesstrel · 27/08/2019 11:32

you cannot learn maths by reading about it,

Actually, I learned a lot of maths from the really excellent textbooks I had (many years ago in the U.S.) They weren't like the maths textbooks now - everything had written explanations, like you were listening to a teacher, along with lots of worked examples and diagrams. (Of course we also had the teacher as well!) And we were expected to do what I now recognise was a huge amount of practice, compared to what my DDs were ever expected to do here.

kesstrel · 27/08/2019 11:35

Sansa Really good points there, IMO.

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