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Original poster

Is this lease bonkers?!

52 replies

DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 16:40

Hoping to get some advice from anyone who has purchased a leasehold property as I think this lease looks absolutely ridiculous.

Just some of the clauses include:

No alterations to inside the property without prior written consent
No pets without prior written consent
All floors other than kitchen and bathroom to be carpeted (I don’t want sodding carpet)
No musical instruments, singing or radio noise from the property
No changing of any of the structure of the property (there are some walls we wanted to move, such as knocking a pantry out to make the kitchen bigger as it’s tiny but it’s not a supporting wall)

There are also plenty of other insane ones like not hanging your washing out of the windows and having to paint, varnish or paper the walls every five years...

Is this normal?! There’s quite a lot of work to be done on the property which is why we wanted to buy it - as a doer upper. The leaseholder is also the council if that makes any difference?

We were so close to signing contracts and moving in and this has now stopped us in our tracks.

OP posts:
Trafalger · 20/08/2019 16:54

I am a leasholder and a freeholder and those terms seem perfectly normal and reasonable.

The freeholder has a responsibility to keep the integrity of the building so leaseholders coming in and knocking down walls can cause structural issues (I'm not saying you would do this but there are some idiots that knock down load bearing walls without proper support). You would need freeholders consent for these alterations. They would normally request a structural engineer to come in and check the work you wanted to do (they will charge you the engineers fee and any freeholders fee) before and then after the work is completed.

Carpets are again standard as noise can really travel in flats especially if you are first floor or above and walking on wooden floors in heels etc......

Pets is standard. Most freeholders wont deny a leaseholder a pet but within reason. If you have a tiny 1 bed flat and want 5 Irish wolf hounds then I would refuse consent!

If you want to be able to do what you want then buy a freehold property not a leasehold property.

YouLookGood · 20/08/2019 16:56

Never buy a leasehold property.

CSIblonde · 20/08/2019 16:56

I used to work for an EA, that's quite standard. The structural stuff applied a lot where I lived & worked, as many buildings also had National Heritage status & the local Council were also mega hot on not altering buildings historical features. One owner ignored this & was forced to undo his work (he altered two floors) & a local hotel was forced to remove the new doors they replaced their gorgeous 1900's wooden ones with.

Trafalger · 20/08/2019 16:57

I should of also added the council are the freeholders not the leaseholder. You are a leaseholder and are leasing the flat for x amount of years from the freeholder who owns the building and the land it sits upon.

RosaWaiting · 20/08/2019 16:58

Sounds normal to me, barring one thing

Alteration inside the property- I can paint or get a new kitchen without asking them. I thought it was to cover more radical work but then there seems to be an additional thing in your lease about that.

Maybe it’s just badly written.

I actually wish we had a carpet rule tbh!!

Trafalger · 20/08/2019 16:59

youlookgood that's easier said than done 99% of flats will always be leasehold as you need some way to maintain the building as a whole not each person just looking after their small part.

Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 16:59

Thanks for the reply @Trafalger

So would vinyl flooring on a ground floor maisonette be a general no go?

We have two small dogs and a massive garden space so I’m praying they’d accept that.

Just feel so frustrated when we’ve saved so long for this place and already spent quite a bit of money on everything in the run up, to then be hit with these terms it seems quite a shock to the system. Our fault really for not doing more research into leasehold I guess... feel like we’re no better than renting with all these rules!

OP posts:
19lottie82 · 20/08/2019 17:00

All floors other than kitchen and bathroom to be carpeted (I don’t want sodding carpet)

Perfectly fair if it’s a flat. I doubt you would want your upstairs neighbour to NOT have carpet!

Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 17:01

Sorry freeholder, my brain is frazzled!

Yeah @RosaWaiting I thought it was odd, but my solicitor actually pulled it up and when I looked at the local councils website they have a whole form to fill out for alterations so I assume it is an actual thing. It needs quite a lot of work!

OP posts:
RosaWaiting · 20/08/2019 17:01

If you back out of this, do get the lease terms before you offer anywhere else

Also, if you get a shared freehold flat, you will have the joy of negotiating with the other freeholders for things.

Pipandmum · 20/08/2019 17:02

Yes except the one about musical instruments/singing/radio. Normally they say that noise should be kept to a minimum after, say, 11pm or not be so loud as to disturb neighbours but it reads like you can’t play or sing or even listen to the radio ever?

RosaWaiting · 20/08/2019 17:02

Cross post
I’d be surprised if the council want to be bothered when you plan to paint

Worth double checking that one.

itsasausage · 20/08/2019 17:02

They're all standard terms but usually all negotiable with freeholders consent. so just ask them about the vinyl. They might say you just have to use additional soundproofing/underlay.

Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 17:04

We actually want to lower the really high ceilings to put in gas central heating and we’ll be soundproofing when we do that so maybe that would tick the boxes? Unless they say we can’t lower the ceilings or add in GSH...

OP posts:
Trafalger · 20/08/2019 17:05

Most leases say you have to decorate every x amount of years. We have never enforced this with the freehold we own. It seems excessive! If however we did find that a leaseholder was letting their property go to ruin we would step in and enforce it and we have legal ways of doing this.

Trafalger · 20/08/2019 17:06

drier have you checked the property actually has a gas connection? A lot of council properties were not built with gas connections and it can cost a hell of a lot to get one run from the main supply on the road. Just something to check!

NoBaggyPants · 20/08/2019 17:07

You'll also have to pay a hefty admin fee each time you ask permission for a variation of terms.

Dogs and maisonettes/ flats don't go well together. It only takes one complaint from a neighbour and a whole heap of hassle for you.

If you do want a leasehold, look for one that's not council owned. Mine is leasehold but the management company are miles away so don't care what we do. That can be a negative too though, a problem neighbour would be easier to deal with in a council managed property.

RosaWaiting · 20/08/2019 17:09

OP I live in a small one bed

I could have got a bigger place if I’d bought ex council but there were other lease terms that worried me and I didn’t even want to do any work on the place. I think I’d probably ditch this and start again.

NoBaggyPants · 20/08/2019 17:09

Whilst they're unlikely to chase you for internal decoration, they will bill you when they decorate externally. That cost can go into thousands, especially post Grenfell when many buildings have been found to be non compliant.

Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 17:10

@Trafalger yes it’s got a connection to the mains! Luckily my DH is in the construction industry so everything we plan to do has been well thought out and would have all the right paperwork etc. Hopefully that will work in our favour!

Yeah the dog thing is now really worrying me... they’re small and lovely (and generally very quiet) but I just don’t know what the neighbours will think. We know the upstairs flat so that’s not an issue but the NDN we have no idea about!

OP posts:
steff13 · 20/08/2019 17:10

So, are you buying this property, but someone else gets to dictate these sorts of things, am I understanding that correctly?

MediocreOmens · 20/08/2019 17:10

I agree they are all completely standard. You will often find they are not well enforced though. The alterations bit is to stop you knocking down a wall which could compromise the integrity of the whole structure or changing windows so the building doesn't look uniform.

If you are ground floor you will probably get away with no carpet but be prepared to have to put some in to sell it as that is really the only time anyone will know. If you were first floor with no carpet then that is just arsehole behaviour.

I would however steer clear of leasehold if you can, getting the freeholder to do things like fix a leaking roof can be very difficult. Also if some are still rented out by the council and they decide to replace all the windows you can find yourself with a very hefty bill.

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/31/owners-ex-local-authority-homes-bills-thousands

RosaWaiting · 20/08/2019 17:10

There might be a safety issue with having gas, I live in quite a big block and I’m glad we don’t have gas.

Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 17:11

@RosaWaiting we have been looking for nearly 2 years, we live in the South East so really really expensive - got this one about £20k under market value as the seller was keen to get rid (think it was part of a will/estate) so I know it’s an amazing deal - IF we can circumnavigate this lease

OP posts:
Original poster
DrierThanANunsNasty · 20/08/2019 17:14

In terms of the big bills etc...

We have seen that they’ve recently completed works on the roof and communal areas which cost £1100 per maisonette (four in the block) and that was just paid off by the seller. The other statements show this kind of cost happens every 3-5 years and the ground rent is £10 a year.

OP posts: