To think the government are trying to double bluff their way out of no deal Brexit

[Bearbehind]

• ‘Leaked’ assessments of the impact of no deal which they then under play

• Insisting FOM will end immediately on 1st November

• Refusing to publish other assessments on impact

It’s all sounding to me like it’s designed to get Leavers to actually start to get concerned about no deal to then give the government an excuse to back down on it.

I can’t see it working though; Leavers aren’t going to accept any of the consequences as anything other than Project Fear

I can’t wait to see how Johnson finds his way out of this one.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

DippyAvocado
I also think they are so incompetent that we will end up crashing out by accident.

It won't be by accident, the majority who voted Leave in the referendum want out.

Those who voted Leave in the referendum had been promised by the Brexiter MPs that we would still have full access to the single market (in fact Johnson was still promising this after the referendum); that we would hold all the cards, that there would be no downsides, only upsides. A crash-out Brexit was not what Leave voters had been promised by those whom they were following.

It won't be by accident, the majority who voted Leave in the referendum want out.

You can try and rewrite history all you want but leaving with no deal was not what the majority of Leavers voted for .

It wasn’t even on the radar then.

All the talk was about ‘the easiest deal in history’

Leavers may now claim everyone who voted that way really wanted no deal but that’s simply not true.

I can't believe people are still talking up a general election, when we all know that asking people to vote more than once about anything - like who their government should be - is undemocratic and must not be allowed. You vote once and then you are stuck with that for the rest of eternity no matter what. That is the meaning of democracy, AS WE ALL KNOW.

Bearbehind

You can try and rewrite history all you want but leaving with no deal was not what the majority of Leavers voted for

Not technically true (we can never be exactly sure), but the information packs that were sent out did state something about not having a no deal brexit.

On the one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I think it's pretty clear that this is all a game to those in power and many of them don't give a flying fuck what the hell happens. They don't have the faintest clue what they're doing.

They think they're a lot smarter than they actually are.

I think what bearbehind is saying is true.
The government sent out their leaflets, warning that Brexit would cause chaos and would leave us poorer - that is true. But the Leave MPs derided this and called it Project Fear (Gove - haven't we all had enough of experts). It was pro-Brexit MPs and MEPs who established the narrative for Leave voters and no-deal was most certainly not part of that narrative.

Not technically true (we can never be exactly sure), but the information packs that were sent out did state something about not having a no deal brexit.

Of course it’s ‘technically true’

I said it wasn’t what the ‘majority of Leavers voted for’

You can’t honestly be now trying to claim that over half of Leavers always wanted no deal?

They might be lots insisting that now but it’s more than a little disingenuous to claim that was the intention 3 years ago.

You do baffle me boney upthread you said some Leavers were already worried about no deal, now your arguing it was what the majority always wanted???

Bearbehind

Its only the same as you do, "Leavers", "majority of leavers".

Your numbers change with how you feel when you post.

Yet you seem unable to understand that your opinions are just that and not backed up by any data.

Are all leavers unconcerned about a no deal Brexit?

Did the majority vote for a deal of some sort?

I am questioning your numbers, your thoughts and your opinions.
Especially as you seem to know what all, the majority, some brexiteers reasons for voting the way that they did, depending on how you feel when you post.

I agree with you about Johnson, OP, because he isn't actually an ardent no dealer because he believes in it - he only believes in what's best for himself. Which might well be to avoid the disaster of a no deal which he can be blamed for, but to be able to avoid looking weak and shifty by blaming everyone else from stopping him going through with it. Just like the original plan was to narrowly lose the referendum so they didn't actually have to do anything but he could look like a man of the people.

boney as ever your arguments make no sense.

I specifically said ‘the majority did not vote for no deal’

You can’t then bring in other comments I may have made about different aspects of leaving and apply that logic to this specific point.

If you are stating the majority DID support no deal from the beginning I’d like to see your rationale for that comment.

No deal wasn’t even being entertained by many people. It was unthinkable.

We’re the UK don’t you know, of course we were always going to be getting a great deal.

It was going to be the easiest deal in history, we held all the cards......

Bearbehind
boney as ever your arguments make no sense.

As ever you don't understand what I am posting either through misrepresentation or lack of thought.

I am pointing out to you that you shouldn't make these blanket statements of how many leavers voted for X or Y.

Do you know how many voted for a no deal situation?
No you don't but you state that it was a minority

You do not know how leavers feel about a no deal yet you state that leavers(all) can't be bothered about it.

If you are stating the majority DID support no deal from the beginning I’d like to see your rationale for that comment.

I am not stating this, you are again trying to twist what I post, I am asking you to prove what you are posting, instead of just making up numbers and putting in sound bites that you have previously debunked.

boney I’m not making up numbers, I’m pointing out that no deal was not what most Leavers voted for as it was never an option that was widely discussed - we were promised a deal.

If you want to contradict that then you’ll have to find some evidence.

If we’d voted for no deal why didn’t we leave 3 years ago?

It's utterly irrelevant now who voted for what kind of brexit 3 years ago. The country has slipped into a terrible crisis. Arguing about the meaning of the 3 year old ref isn't helping! And yes, I'm targeting leavers specifically when I say that because we already know remainers wanted none of it in the first place. It's now up to leavers to take a long hard look at what's ahead. We do not need brexit. Not like this. Face the facts and let go of the weird masochistic desire to tear everything down- from our infrastructures to our jobs and relationships.

Well said song

It’s just so frustrating that every time this descends, Leavers claim it’s exactly what they had in mind originally, even though it’s now nothing like what was initially promised.

That’s obviously when they’re not saying no one could know what would happen as it hasn’t been done before.

You can try and rewrite history all you want but leaving with no deal was not what the majority of Leavers voted for
Don't think this is true. People voted to leave, there was lots of talk of a deal and one was indeed negotiated. But ALL leavers voted to leave 2 years after A50 was triggered. No one voted to only leave IF we had a deal, that wasn't on the ballot paper.

If your going to say some votes are irrelevant because you have decided you think they voted a certain way for reasons you dont like then you might as well discount plenty of remain votes. Because some of remainers might have voted to stay in the EU because they thought WW3 would start otherwise (for example).

newstart I do see your point but if the narrative before the referendum had said we’d leave with no deal, it will be tough for a while etc, do you really think Leave would still have won?

No deal wasn’t even being entertained by many people. It was unthinkable. No, there are those of us who thought it would be the case, as the chances of the EU actually not taking the opportunity to make it so difficult that no other member state would follow suit were low to middling. I didn't see the govt booklet, as I live in Belgium, and I voted leave knowing that no deal was a distinct possibility.

Are you moving back to the UK soon scary? Fancy partaking in the many benefits of no deal brexit? Or will you wave the flag from Brussels?

I live in Belgium, and I voted leave knowing that no deal was a distinct possibility

Given the fact you don’t even live in the UK, I can’t help but hope you feel the effects of No Deal harder than those who didn’t even want to leave.

Well, they won't though. They'll probably have no disruptions to food/meds/fuel supplies etc.
Belgium I think has a good registration system so if they've been long term residents they'll be all cosy over there.

Ain’t that just the problem.

Why should people who won’t be affected, have the right to force this on the rest of us?

In my brexit cosmology, I imagine various circles: outside circle has leavers who just wanted to disengage politically but were happy with SM and CU (respectable position) then there are those happy with May's deal (bit crap but still respectable), then moving in further a circle for those who are fine with no deal but at least live here. And in the innermost circle of the brexit hell I put no deal rabid expat trolls preaching at the rest of us from afar. I do hope that special place exists just for them.

Bearbehind

You do keep making up numbers though, we don't know how and why people voted because no one asked other than 'do you want to leave'

And if how people voted is so irrelevant (as you agreed with song) why do you keep bringing it up?