To think some people over estimate what counselling can achieve ?

[Lardlizard]

Thinking about something my mum said about how someone she knows should have had counselling for a breavement she went through

Well, I’m certainly not against counselling at all
Anything that helps
Is good as far as I’m concerned
But it’s as if some people thjng no matter what hell you’ve been through
Have a few counselling sessions and all will be right

It depends, a limited number of sessions can help people adjust to their new life, gives a sounding board to not bother people they know with their problems etc. With bereavement where the person was older and ill, adjusting to life without them takes time mostly but your mum is right that counselling can help. The situation is different though when there's been a loss of a younger person, a few sessions is rarely enough, I know people who went for years especially where there's inquests and court cases to deal with, 10% of our clients when I worked for a bereavement charity lost their loved one through murder or manslaughter. You mum isn't being unreasonable potentially in the circumstances she was discussing but it is a case by case basis, circumstances differ

I think you are right in a way - a few sessions probably won't do much. Also even with longer term counselling, the client has to do a lot of work and devote themselves to the process.

But that's like anything really, I'm a language teacher and I can't magically make you speak another language! You have to work, you have to try even when you are tired or embarrassed, and you have to practice. I don't mind taking your company's money whether you learn or not - I just motivate you and give you the tools. The rest is up to you.

The luxury of an hour that's all about you is enough for some people to get their mind straight. That could be a one on one yoga session, therapy or whatever!

So people only become partners with or wish to spend time with people who are interesting and attractive

Er well yes. Would you want to become friends with/partner of a boring, horrible person? What would be the point?

I had me some counselling after a horrible year of bereavement, family illness and stress. Expected a cuppa and a good cry. Got some much needed perspective and insight into why I act as I do in life going back to childhood. 2 sessions only and it fave me permission to make huge life changed. I still think back to advice now years later

I’ve had a lot of therapy over the years - wouldn’t have chosen to do it had it not come as part of the ‘deal’ for my own training. I won’t say I’m a happier person as a result - insight can hurt - but I believe I am a more reflective, capable and functional one. I have never encountered ‘fluff’ but it’s vital to find a therapist with whom you ‘click’. It’s a relationship. The dilemma with therapy provided by IAPT or similar is that it’s not only of short duration but you don’t get to choose the therapist. Many will be excellent therapists but if they don’t personally suit the client it’s going to hinder progress.

I've been through 3 different types of counselling. One at uni, one after birth Ds2. One for Ds1 after major problem.
All useless.
My mum is a counsellor.

@1300cakes Er well yes. Would you want to become friends with/partner of a boring, horrible person? What would be the point

It's all relative surely, perhaps as a boring person I might share the hobby of another boring person.

Ime the most attractive people are often the most boring . Imv because they have never had to try to make friends.

And most people have a story to tell.

I think the benefits of counselling are vastly exaggerated and that to be totally frank a lot is snake oil.

There is research into what does (or does not) make therapy ‘work’ - and the biggest factor is the client - you have to be hopeful it will work, want to put the work in yourself and not consider one hour a week will do something to you on its own. The second biggest factor is your relationship with the therapist and how good it is - do you trust them? Like them enough to feel open with them? Factors such as the way the therapist works (modality) are lesser.

I understand also that the level of training has little or no impact on the success of the counselling relationship - in studies trainee counsellors often do better than highly trained, experienced ones. It’s so subjective.

I agree it’s snake oil to a certain extent. I’ve tried long term private counselling (two or three years in one case, 18 months in another) in different decades of my life, with very different but both highly trained, qualified, experienced counsellors, and in both cases all it did for me was to plunge me gradually into a suicidal depression and I ended up in the NHS systems and on medication.

I did have some wonderful, life changing CBT with a clinical psychologist on the NHS in my late 20s, after the first bad experience of long term counselling, and that was amazing. Sadly it’s probably impossible to get that level of support on the NHS these days.

I’m very wary of long term counselling as a result of my experiences. There is some evidence to back this up: if you are prone to depression, talking endlessly about your problems and creating narratives of why things are so messed up turns out to encourage negative rumination, which is a major factor in depression.

This is largely why I think it’s snake oil crafty

When someone says counselling didn’t work for them people inevitably come back with the fact they were at fault in some way. It’s never accepted that it didn’t work because sometimes it doesn’t work.

Well thank goodness it's not mandatory then.

It's a bit weird to be so passionately aggressive about something you're not interested in.

As for it's efficacy, what treatment ever is 100% effective?

Chemo isn't.
Contraception isn't.
Antibiotics aren't.

If the help helps, it helps. I think it's out of order for you to proclaim (your opinion) it's all shit all the time as the only answer.

No one is being aggressive

Counselling is not mandatory but there is a generally accepted view that it is the go to for depression and anxiety and the like. This makes accessing help if you don’t want it quite difficult.

I had bereavement counselling from Cruse and it was life changing. Honestly can't recommend them enough- I had been bottling up pain for decades and their counsellor was so skilled and wise, I didn't know I was stuck but I was and they helped me carry on with life.

I had one experience of counselling and will never, ever consider it again. I was referred by my gp as I was suffering with pre/natal depression. I went for my first session and off loaded everything which I felt was contributing to how low I was feeling. The counsellor listened, then said more or less “that’s a pity you’re feeling like that. I suggest you either change how you feel or leave your job which is contributing to those feelings!” That was it, was told to develop a worry box in my mind and leave my worries there”. Not sure how leaving paid employment, no salary and a worry box would have worked! Found it one of the most soul destroying experiences of my life!!

It’s worrying to hear experiences if what sound like insensitive responses from therapists. I’m not too sure, though, how the factors of client expectations and attitudes plus relationship with therapist equal ‘snake oil’? The latter is understood to mean selling something as a panacea. No responsible therapist will ever suggest they can offer a panacea. The former factors are variables in relating to people. I agree that there can be a risk from the therapeutic process in some cases: where someone is suffering from trauma and ‘just pouring it all out’ may re-traumatise them; active suicidality - in some cases, but not all. A well trained and ethical therapist will assess risk and if someone seems unlikely to benefit from therapy at that particular point in their lives, will say so and help them find appropriate support.

But they won’t crafty because let’s be honest, it’s their source of income and so accepted is the view that counselling does help that if it isn’t helping, it’s blamed on the patient.

There are a lot of shit counsellors out there, unfortunately.

I think talking therapies can be transformative but it depends on a lot of different factors - the personal relationship with your therapist, their training, whether you are open to therapy and willing to put the work in... it's not as simple as just putting someone on anti-depressants and sometimes you have to try a lot of different therapists before you find the right one.

Sometimes it just won't work - wrong person, wrong timing, wrong modality... But sometimes it can change your life and it's worth putting in some effort to try and do that. But six sessions on the NHS with a random counsellor is unlikely to effect much change, sadly.

I'm sure counselling can be really helpful in some situations, with a good practitioner. But I'd question whether it was useful for bereavement, unless there's some complication whereby you aren't dealing with it normally. It is normal to be sad when you are bereaved, and for that to go on a long time. That's unpleasant, but not a cause for counselling, surely?

I think it depends on what you want counselling to do.

I’ve had short term CBT that literally kept me functioning at a time of high anxiety, much further down the line I then had long term therapy that helped the underlying causes of my anxiety.

If you want counselling to stop you feeling anxious or sad then I think you’ll be disappointed - we feel what we need to feel in a given set of circumstances. It can’t change separation or loss or illness but it can help you understand yourself better, have more empathy for yourself and become more self accepting. Counselling can help you come to terms with trauma, or abuse so that it doesn’t blight your life forever more. It can give a place where you can fully, honestly express yourself without judgement and allow yourself the time and space to figure things out.

Counselling can challenge the idea that we’re meant to toughen up, take everything in our stride, it can be a strong counter to the Insta culture where everything in everyone’s garden is rosy - it can give permission to cry, hurt, rage and scream against things that we should never need to deal with.

It's so subjective and impossible to write off all counselling just same as impossible to say it all works!

I've had relate counseling with dh and it was amazing. I felt amazing leaving the sessions, so much lighter and happier and so did dh (it was pil related).

Having 3rd person listen then relay back what outsider sees was fab. Asking me why did I react that way, and dh etc.

How were we both conditioned into different roles.

I was also shoved into uni counsellor office once and all she did was stare at me with really scary eyes and that was it. Utterly useless to be honest looking back and how I was in desperate need at that time I think she was a disgrace.

Sometimes you can't see wood for trees and sometimes people around you have such a demented way of living and being it's enlightening and gives you a ladder to climb out of the wood and get a different perspective on things.

Relate was v good but I'd be wary of others because you pay alot of 50 for first sessionz and the person is crap!!

Counselling and other psychological therapies can actually make some people worse and exacerbate depression.
It can help, if done by a skilled professional and targeted at a specific issue but in the hands of a charlatan is damaging.
CBT sees better results.

I think it depends on a variety of factors as pp have stated - the individual, the counsellor, the circumstances. The first time I had counselling I’d just had a bereavement. My whole family had been turned upside down. I was at uni, I had friends but no-one I was really close enough to to talk about my feelings. My uni counsellor listened to how I felt, no judgement and I could basically pour out my heart which was exactly what I needed at the time. Of course things gradually got better with time but she gave constructive suggestions on how to get on with life which really helped.

In my experience counselling only helps if you’re in the right mindset for it and you might not know if you are until you have it. I’ve had 2 lots of counselling with a rape and sexual assault organisation and the first lot I went to didn’t really do much for me and I think it’s because I wasn’t ready for it. The second lot a year later with a different person was much more successful and I felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders.

As others have said, it’s not a cure and a good counsellor would never say that it is.

Counselling is hard work, and the more you need it, the tougher it is. People who think it’s easy or don’t put the effort in won’t get what they need out of it. You also need the right counsellor. I had ptsd, I couldn’t have learnt to life with it without counselling but it was hard and traumatic. I think people underestimate what they need to put in, think of it like taking a pill rather than over estimating what can be achieved.