To be really really annoyed at River Island's treatment of my daughter at interview

[BadHairDyeDay]

DD17 applied for a job with RI - 8 hour contract evenings and Saturdays and would fit around school no problem. On Thursday she an email asking her to attend a "recruitment event" yesterday morning at 9.30 and to bring "proof of eligibility to work in the UK". Excellent so far.
So yesterday morning DD gets her National insurance number letter and I drop her off for the interview. As I'm walking back to the car I get a phone call from DD to say she needs either her birth certificate or her passport. I ask her what for. She says she was supposed to bring either one. I said no it was proof of eligibility to work in the UK, I.e. National insurance number. Birth certificate = proof of identity. Passport = eligibility to travel outside your own country. That was problem no 1 . Anyway RI had said she could come back at 10.30 with said documents and have interview then. So I made the half hour round trip home to fetch BC.
All fine then. But no. Problem no.2. At the end of the interview DD is asked when she can work (which she had set out in detail in her application form and was the same as the advertised position). So she tells them again and they say "Oh so you can't work XX?". DD says no. They say not at all? DD says sorry no it was in my application form and I didn't think I had to! End of interview!

So AIBU to be raging that they didn't ask for the documents they actually wanted at interview and also that we completely wasted a whole morning due to the fact that they didn't read my DD's application form properly and changed the criteria at the last minute anyway!!!!!
I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

P.S Sorry this is so long!!!

I turned down an interview for shelf filling at Asda when I found out it was a whole day interview with role playing, group tests etc. I thought it was ridiculous and told them so.

Why is it ridiculous? Just because a CV says you can do X, doesn't mean you can. Look at all the threads on MN about working with rude people or incapable people. Role plays allow the recruiters to actually see you in action. Retailers are under so much pressure these days, they need staff that are agile and deliver good customer service, not one who will refuse to work on a checkout just because their job is 'shelf stacker'.

@JenniferJareau well you may not find it ridiculous to have to go for a day of silly role play and group tests but I did and so did my DH, my siblings, my parents and the friends I told.

I hate things like role play and tasks. I was in my 50's at the time having worked from the age of 17. I think I was capable of filling shelves for a couple of hours a night. I had been doing shelf filling for the previous 2 years anyway.

I, like many others, am not confident or at ease in large groups of strangers. I am fine when I get to know people or in small groups. Therefore the chances are I would not have performed well in those silly tasks although would have done the job perfectly well (who couldn't fill shelves!).

Lets be honest you could train a monkey to fill shelves so no need whatsoever to make it a big deal.

@HouseholdPlantMurderer an all day assessment might have been fun for you but it certainly would not be for me or many others. I can't think of anything worse personally. Wasting a whole day doing silly tasks. No thank you.

You say there were about 100 people there but surely the company should be able to whittle numbers down by looking properly at CV's? How did companies manage before all the role playing etc become the thing to do?

I had to role play for a job at M&S. If I had known about it I would not have gone for the interview. I did it and got offered the job but I hated every second of it and felt incredibly self conscious and stupid. When I am actually working and dealing with the public I don't feel like that.

For all the role playing, group tasks etc lots of retailers manage to get it wrong. Many shops have pretty useless staff today. Maybe they are good at tasks but not so good at actually dealing with the public?

@mydogisthebest you are actually being rude.

Maybe people you know do find it ridiculous. But they are unlikely to tell you that actually, times have changed and you are being ridiculous.

As I said, this cant be that recent. As asda do not employ, shelf stickers. Staff have to be prepared to pitch in wherever they are required.

And honestly, people who say 'trained monkeys can do it' arent the people they are looking for. Who wants to employ someone who looks down on the job they are doing, and everyone around them (in work) is doing.

That's exactly the reason they have days where they see you interact with other people. Stores usually employ more then one person at a time. And they want people who find it easy to interact with others. That doesnt come over at a laid back chat at an interview .

Think about it. If employers and businesses were felt having a laid back chat, resulted in hiring the best staff. Why have most businesses changed it? People may have done well, when they employed you on this basis. But that doesnt happen most of the time.

Which is the reason why they do this. You may feel a trained monkey could stack shelves. But a trained monkey cant also manage their work load, help a customer, remain polite and friendly, know the store lay out, mind jumping on checkouts or customer service, or spot something that needs restocking and sort it. Especially during the christmas period, when its hectic.

That's who they are looking for. It's actually a very difficult job to work in retail. Imo, not paid enough for the expectations.

If big businesses could employ people by having a quick chat, they wouldnt put these days on.

Also lots of people, turn up and realise they actually they dont want to all the above. By attending the session for the day, they can realise that and not accept a job. Because again, that's a waste of time and money for business. As well as a waste of time for the person being employed.

For all the role playing, group tasks etc lots of retailers manage to get it wrong. Many shops have pretty useless staff today. Maybe they are good at tasks but not so good at actually dealing with the public?

Am I totally baffled as to why you even went for a job in retail.

You, clearly, feel that you are more intelligent and better than retail staff, including managers. I can understand being self conscious. The M&S interview worked for you. You decided you didnt want the job. Clearly, that was the right decision.

I can guarantee that no one wants to employ someone working in retail, who has your view of people working in retail.

My experience is that retain staff, I the whole are very good.

If you find so many of them cant give customer service to your satisfaction, maybe all those people arent the ones in the wrong.

@mydogisthebest

Therefore the chances are I would not have performed well in those silly tasks although would have done the job perfectly well (who couldn't fill shelves!).

I used to work for a large supermarket chain and they need staff who are agile and can move from stacking shelves to working on the till to manning the customer service desk without question. If a person can't show they can be that flexible at interview via role play or a group task, why should I believe they can do it in real life?

You say there were about 100 people there but surely the company should be able to whittle numbers down by looking properly at CV's?

They have whittled it down, but when you are doing recruitment on that scale you get people who find other jobs so don't take your offer, know the hours have to be flexible but then refuse the offer as they want rigid working hours (they assume you want them so badly you'll change the hours for them ), some simply never reply to your offer and so on.

I hate assessment centers and role play tasks as well, they are up there on my list with icebreakers as things I really hate in the workplace but sometimes you have to be flexible and do things you don't like to do to get the job you want.

Customer service in most places is pretty scant these days; it's not the staffs fault , but there had been many occasions that I've walked out of places without buying anything as I couldn't find anyone to help or the person I needed ( the only one in the know) was dealing with another customer and that looked like it wasn't going to be resolved this side of Christmas!
Another thread I know, but shopping isn't what it once was. No wonder the high street shops are struggling.

It feels pretty classicist to assume that people going up for a job in retail are either liars or thick, and thus need a full day assessment to prove they can do the job.
I agree a full day assessment for a retail job is overkill but it’s not done because they think their staff are thick. It’s because they attract applications from a huge pool of people and can afford to have a really competitive interview process to ensure they select the very best of the applicants.
I work in a specialised highly paid field we can barely scrape together 3 decent candidates from applications when we have a vacancy. Competitive interviews like this dont work as jobs become more specialised because they’re just aren’t enough suitable applicants. It’s a shame because I’ve employed some right charlatans off the back of a chat only but I’m not sure how else we could do it.

Ps I don’t think their are any easy jobs. Employers in all sectors expect so much from their employees these days.

Lets be honest you could train a monkey to fill shelves so no need whatsoever to make it a big deal.

I hate that people have this attitude towards retail staff - it's so rude and belittling.

Working as a shelf stacker is much more than just bunging things on a shelf and walking away. You have to be pretty physically fit - lots of carrying heavy boxes or pulling heavy cages, for example. You also need to know the layout of the entire shop so you can help customers, be polite and be happy and able to jump on the checkout or switch department at the last minute to cover breaks, sickness and busy periods.

I'm a retail manager and my staff are much more than "trained monkeys" - people who turn up with that kind of attitude don't last long.

Passport or birth certificate is a standard requirement.

Lets be honest you could train a monkey to fill shelves so no need whatsoever to make it a big deal.

I hate that people have this attitude towards retail staff - it's so rude and belittling.

Working as a shelf stacker is much more than just bunging things on a shelf and walking away. You have to be pretty physically fit - lots of carrying heavy boxes or pulling heavy cages, for example. You also need to know the layout of the entire shop so you can help customers, be polite and be happy and able to jump on the checkout or switch department at the last minute to cover breaks, sickness and busy periods.

I'm a retail manager and my staff are much more than "trained monkeys" - people who turn up with that kind of attitude don't last long.

Lets be honest you could train a monkey to fill shelves so no need whatsoever to make it a big deal
I actually worked as a shelf stacker while at university and was spectacularly shit at it. Slow, no spatial awareness, no idea of stock control.
All jobs take some degree of skill.

Customer service in most places is pretty scant these days; it's not the staffs fault , but there had been many occasions that I've walked out of places without buying anything as I couldn't find anyone to help or the person I needed

I don't think that's lack of customer service as such, it's lack of staff.

In shops these days staff are very attentive, presumably because they are being scrutinised every minute of their shift. They're so over the top that it's suffocating. I don't blame them, they're doing what they're being forced to do. I'd say if you can actually find a member of staff the standard of service is far better than it was in the past. No one shrugs their shoulders any more, or serves you whilst chatting over their shoulder to their friend about what they're doing after work. It just wouldn't be tolerated any more.

Unless monkeys can do stock rotation and read date codes plus jump on a till at any time then you are on to a loser employing them to shelf stack.

You say there were about 100 people there but surely the company should be able to whittle numbers down by looking properly at CV's? How did companies manage before all the role playing etc become the thing to do?

Maybe they didn't have 750 CVs sent to them?🤷
100 people actually was just a fraction of the ones who sent a CV from what my manager told me.

Assessment centres are not for everyone, but some do well in them. Civil service is using them for the Fast track afaik.

You are being very rude about retail staff. They are people too, you know.

Filling shelves IS easy - you just need to understand date order! And so is "jumping on a till" as long as you have been trained how to use it and have basic numeracy skills, which presumably are a given if you have GCSE maths or a functional maths qualification. I can't see why you'd need a full day's selection process as evidence of either skill.

As for customer service and other skills, the supermarkets are taking the mickey if they expect high level skills for the money they pay and the poor working conditions. If they want high level skills then pay the living wage, and also offer fixed hours. I worked in a library for a year and I was very surprised at the level of responsibility for the salary ( around FTE £15K). If you want someone special then pay something special.

I was referring to the point about monkeys berlinbabylon. As you say a certain amount of intelligence is required.

@Flerkin I never said it was recent. It was over 10 years ago. My friends and family all said the day of tests was silly and ridiculous before I even said it.

I have done shelf filling and worked on a till so I know exactly what they entail and, sorry, but shelf filling does not really require very much brains. I find it mind numbingly boring but I did it in the evenings/nights so it served a purpose. I was never once asked to "jump on a till" but if I had been I could have done that.

I actually worked in retail for around 10 years so don't look down on retail staff. Quite the opposite in fact.

Having worked in solicitors for over 25 years retail opened my eyes to how rude so many customers are. I was always polite and friendly to customers. I got praised a lot by customers especially when I worked in Waterstones and the book dept of WH Smith as I went out of my way to help. So I am afraid your opinion of me is totally wrong.

Also where did I say I turned down the job with M&S? I didn't actually.

I think asking someone who has previous experience of a particular job to give up a day and go and do silly tasks, tests and role play is rude and unnecessary. If you have done the job for 5 years for the same company and they give you a good reference then that should be enough.

As I said, when I went for interviews as a secretary I didn't have to keep doing a typing test, spelling test etc because I had already been doing the job for years.

@isabellerossignol, I agree that the main problem is not enough staff in shops but, sorry, I don't agree that you no longer get staff who are not interested, chat to other staff etc. Only last week I went into a shop and needed assistance but the two girls were so busy chatting to each other, and not about work, that I gave up.

At the weekend I went to get some lunc with DH. We went somewhere we quite often go. They had some croissants filled with cheese and ham. I don't eat ham. They also had plain croissants. I asked the girl behind the counter if they had any cheese to which she replied they did. So I asked for a croissant with cheese. She said she couldn't do that but could take the ham out of one of the ones they had!!! I don't call that good customer service - losing mine and DH's customer of probably around £12 plus we wont go back there

berlinbabylon people aren't saying that stacking shelves is difficult - it's not an especially challenging job by any means, but that doesn't mean the people who do it for a living deserve to be compared to "trained monkeys".

I get sick of people speaking about retail staff like they're idiots. I see my staff get spoken to like that on a daily basis and it sucks. They're ignored, told to go away or be quiet - they have hands shoved in their faces to get them to stop talking - it's just totally unnecessary. Posts saying "well it's not exactly hard, you could train a monkey to do it" are just plain nasty.

I actually worked in retail for around 10 years so don't look down on retail staff. Quite the opposite in fact.

If you don't look down on them, why compare them to trained monkeys? It's rude and totally unnecessary. You can get your point across without belittling peoples jobs and careers.

I don’t think RI did anything wrong in the interview, in fact it was kind of them to postpone the interview for the same day so the documents could be brought in - rather than cancelling it or having it another day. That job position would have had many applicants (believe it or not) so they could have easily replaced your daughter/hired someone else.

I have NEVER had to show my NI number letter anywhere - including when I used to work in retail (from 2013-2017). They want your NI number to input into payroll - they don’t need the actual letter. Just knowing it from memory or writing it in your phone would suffice. I think you made a bad call there as it certainly isn’t standard, nor is it proof of ID. Maybe times have just moved on if you’re part of the older generations?

Every single job I have had, I have needed to bring in actual ID (obviously either a passport or driving license) during my induction, which gets photocopied and added to my record. I have never had to faff around with birth certificates, wouldn’t even consider bringing mine to an interview. Bringing ID isn’t even a difficult task, I carry my license everywhere and did so when I just had a provisional too.

I never said it was recent. It was over 10 years ago. My friends and family all said the day of tests was silly and ridiculous before I even said it

Then your point about interviews getting ridiculous now, is pointless.

Its over 10 years ago.

At the weekend I went to get some lunc with DH. We went somewhere we quite often go. They had some croissants filled with cheese and ham. I don't eat ham. They also had plain croissants. I asked the girl behind the counter if they had any cheese to which she replied they did. So I asked for a croissant with cheese. She said she couldn't do that but could take the ham out of one of the ones they had!!! I don't call that good customer service - losing mine and DH's customer of probably around £12 plus we wont go back there

Sorry but there is no way you have worked in retail with your attitude. You should know that sometimes retail workers cannot do what you ask of them even if it is reasonably simple request. They have rules they have to follow, even stupid rules. She tried to accommodate you but you went off in a huff. She's probably glad you'll never return.