To be really really annoyed at River Island's treatment of my daughter at interview

[BadHairDyeDay]

DD17 applied for a job with RI - 8 hour contract evenings and Saturdays and would fit around school no problem. On Thursday she an email asking her to attend a "recruitment event" yesterday morning at 9.30 and to bring "proof of eligibility to work in the UK". Excellent so far.
So yesterday morning DD gets her National insurance number letter and I drop her off for the interview. As I'm walking back to the car I get a phone call from DD to say she needs either her birth certificate or her passport. I ask her what for. She says she was supposed to bring either one. I said no it was proof of eligibility to work in the UK, I.e. National insurance number. Birth certificate = proof of identity. Passport = eligibility to travel outside your own country. That was problem no 1 . Anyway RI had said she could come back at 10.30 with said documents and have interview then. So I made the half hour round trip home to fetch BC.
All fine then. But no. Problem no.2. At the end of the interview DD is asked when she can work (which she had set out in detail in her application form and was the same as the advertised position). So she tells them again and they say "Oh so you can't work XX?". DD says no. They say not at all? DD says sorry no it was in my application form and I didn't think I had to! End of interview!

So AIBU to be raging that they didn't ask for the documents they actually wanted at interview and also that we completely wasted a whole morning due to the fact that they didn't read my DD's application form properly and changed the criteria at the last minute anyway!!!!!
I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

P.S Sorry this is so long!!!

If this ID was free, I can’t imagine much opposition. There is much ideological opposition to the concept of ID cards in the UK. The government scrapped our ID card scheme in 2010 - with no refunds to those who had bought one. It was about £30, I think.(I didn’t have one.) I am British and I do not have either a passport or a driving licence. I wouldn’t say my position was particularly rare.

daisypond would you be happy to buy an ID card?

I wouldnt say it's rare to not have a passport and driving licence. However, I think there are more people in the UK who have one or the other.

Why would they want to pay for another ID card. Thats what I am saying.

Either you dont have photo ID and dont feel you need it. Or could do with it but cant afford it. Neither group is going to want to find the cash for national ID.

Or people do have a photo ID and arent going to want to pay for another, that basically gives similar details.

There could be ideological issues. But I think most people are concerned with wasting money. Especially since passports have gone up so much.

I wouldn’t be happy to buy an ID card, really. Scrapping the ID scheme was the first act of Theresa May’s government, so it’s quite recent. At my workplace when we had to prove our right to work in the UK, many people don’t have driving licences. I work in London where there’s no need to drive. It’s rarer to not have a passport, and I was in the minority there, but certainly not the only one. I have had a passport in the past but not for a few years. I’d rather get a passport than an ID card, as at least that has a secondary(or primary) purpose of allowing you to travel. I’m on an average UK income, so could easily afford one. But the only photo ID I have now is my work pass and my railcard.

@Flerkin I get that things change. I feel sorry really for youngsters today. The job market is much tougher. Far more competition for jobs and much stricter criteria to get the jobs.

I walked out of one job on a Thursday because I was shouted and sworn at by someone (not my boss) for something I hadn't done I went for an interview the next day and started a new job on the following Monday. I doubt that could ever happen now.

I do think things have gone too far. A whole day of assessments, role play etc to fill shelves in Asda part time! I could understand it if the vacancy were for a Manager. I dread to think what they have to do.

All the jumping through hoops and yet a lot of employers, especially retail ones, treat their employees like crap. Zero hour contracts, everyone part time so they don't get lunch breaks, tea breaks etc.

I am so glad that I no longer work

@TSSDNCOP thank you yes we have done that but ds bank take 14 working days and charge for the service !

I went through one of these all day assessment centres for NMW job a while ago. It was actually quite fun.
What it did for the managers was that they had over hundred people in there, they observed them how they interact and behave and then i think it was about 40 who were hired.
I can see the point in it for the business. Interviewing so many people would take for ever and like this they could see some behaviours they either wanted or not before someone started a trial. So they did really get a better chance to pick the right person. All is done in one day, which is also super time efficient.
At least we got free lunch and unlimited coffee.

@Peaseblossom22 well, ink is more expensive than blood🙈

I used to go to my branch and get them right there. Lloyds.

Also one job was adamant they needed a utility bill , what 16 year old has a utility bill

I do think things have gone too far. A whole day of assessments, role play etc to fill shelves in Asda part time! I could understand it if the vacancy were for a Manager. I dread to think what they have to do.

That cant be that recent. Asda dont advertise for shelf fillers. All asda colleagues recruited in the last 18 months to 2 years, have had to be prepared to every job is store (unless there is a disability that needs to be accomodated). Theres a contract change going through now, so the asda colleagues recruited as 'stocker' or 'George colleague's(previous to the change) will have to work all sections too.

But again, there is a reason they do it. Many people after the day interview realise it's not for them. They dont realise its bank holiday working, or that they may be expected to stack shelves but not interact with customers on the customer service desk etc. The day Interviews are so that the company (in this case Asda) can see more of a person personality, rather than going through recruitment, on boarding (including right to work checks) only to have the person start and realise they could fake being nice for an hour, but actually, their customer and colleague Interaction is so poor, the job isnt right for them. Happens all the time. Less so since longer interviews have been introduced. That's in lots of companies. Also it give the candidates time to learn about the company.

When wrong candidates are picked it's a pain in the arse and expensive. Besides which, checking Right to work is a legal requirement. You may think its over the top, but the fact is that some people dont have the right to work, and asking people to be honest just wasnt working.

If you walked out of a job like that, today, you wouldnt get a job in a few days. Right to work hasnt impacted that.

Re: the ID card.
I do highly suspect that even if it were free, many wouldn't be happy. Most common argument I heard was "I don't want gov to keep tabs on me/have all the info".
🤷 They already have it all fgs.

Here you have what can happen if employers don't check
www.gov.uk/penalties-for-employing-illegal-workers

I work in retail management also and echo what everyone else has said RE identification documents and right to work in UK.
With regards to RI asking whether she could work beyond the agreed hours, that's a pretty standard question in retail.
If someone calls in sick or you are understaffed, it's handy if you have team members that can flex up if needed.
If she ends up interviewing for any more retail jobs, she can expect to hear the same question.
Doesn't mean they won't hire her if she interviews well. They just need to know where they stand in terms of dealing with a staff shortage or putting more staff on at key times of the year. (Black Friday for example)
What they certainly aren't doing is asking for one thing and then changing their minds later on.

@HouseholdPlantMurderer exactly. I dont get that argument at all

@daisypond exactly. It's pretty pointless having and ID card. No one wants to pay for a pointless ID card.

That is what I was saying if someone wants a photo ID they can just pay for one already.

People are saying we need a national one, because it works well where they are, I dont really get why. Especially if we pay for it, when we can already purchase photo Id if we want to.

Although, the passport issue is a bit moot. The ops daughter has a passport I believe. So did have something

They were a bit vague. From experience a NI letter alone isn't enough . You normally get asked for photo ID, ie. your passport & if no passport, a birth certificate. The NI is only required once you're employed, for payroll. And HR never read a full CV or application form, they skim read them. That's why they say "take me thru your CV",they haven't read it properly. (contracted for years & HR are, erm, a different breed).

OP - what hours did your DD say she could / couldn’t work that RI have taken exception to?

All employers have to check ID / address to they can verify (and prove to the powers that be) that those they are employing have the right to work in the UK.

We were always told if you aren’t sure what to bring ask.. keeps it simple and shows initiative, like you won’t be stood in the corner twiddling your thumbs when your not sure.

Flexibility is now unfortunately the same everywhere, she might be studying but she’ll have holidays/only be in college certain days maybe (if not full time school) they ask incase you maybe tick you can’t do Monday Wednesday Friday for college days but actually you get out at 2 on a Monday and start at 1 on the Friday.. plus there’s a load of students/younger people who “can’t” work Friday, conveniently. We were told it’s always better to say you could work xyz term time but any holidays you were fully flexible, shows you’re willing to do a little more than the minimum too.

I managed to find e-statements on my own Santander account. As soon as I told DD she figured out how to do it for herself. (Rather than bite my head off as I rather expected). Thanks for the encouragement.

(Still looks like something you could easily forge, but oh well)

Sorry you & your DD had a bad interview experience. I'm afraid it is getting more and more the case that prospective employees applying to large multi-national companies have to attend recruitment events usually with a large group of others who are wittled down to whoever they deem fits their requirements. The ID thing is fairly standard but often interviewers don't bother reading all the applications and then decide not for them when something comes to light afterwards thereby wasting everybody's time and raising hopes needlessly. Yes i've been there too! Hope DD is successful with her next interview..good luck

I think for retail now flexibility is an absolute requirement.i also think it's harder to get these jobs than it once was. She's bounds to get something with perseverance.

I think for retail now flexibility is an absolute requirement.i also think it's harder to get these jobs than it once was

Theres flexibility then theres being called in while on holiday. Overtime stuck on rota without even being asked. And being expected to come in at a moment's notice several times a week to the point you wonder what the hell they did before you started.

They dont want flexibility.they want your entire life.

There are still retail jobs out there that will give people set days, it's just not as common as it once was. I find smaller companies much better than larger ones in this respect.

I'm a manager in a retail chain - approximately 50 shops nationwide. All my staff have set-day contracts - anywhere from two days a week to full-time set hours. The only people who work don't have set days are management - they work 5 days in 7, but have the flexibility to pick and choose which days they work in advance (rotas are published a month in advance)

With regards to overtime, I always ask before changing people's hours or before asking them to work extra - most people say yes - presumably because they're asked first, and are given plenty of notice too. Not all retail environments have poor management systems in place - but I think it's easier to plan in advance and have set days/hours in a smaller environment with less people to work with.

@SarahTancredi I agree with what you said about retail taking over your life. DP is a standard co-worker, been emailed and rang whilst on holiday to ask him about dealing with customers and this regularly happens on his days off. He normally works 3 lates a week at 12.30pm-9.30pm and 3 out of 4 weekends. How are people supposed to see their families? Luckily he is starting a new job next month out of retail.

That doesn't seem to be unreasonable these days. l'm 60 and l just started a new job 2 months ago. Even though l've had my NI number for over 40 years, l had to provide my birth certificate, marriage certificate (for change of name) and my driving licence. And recent utility bills to prove my address.
l'm only working part time in a supermarket, and l've been employed for 40+ years (in one role for 28 years), l still had to upload the documents before they'd even consider me for interview. So that seems to be what happens now.

crazy

Honestly I think it's their way of getting full time hours while only paying part time.

Yes people are paid for the hours they do but if you are for instance a cashier but regularly left "in charge" so to speak they get almost full time.assistant manager whilst only paying for a cashier. Scraping the money back.even more when a staff member goes on holiday and only gets paired fir 16 hours and dropping your hours as soon as it dies down.

Of course the staff member has no idea when this will be so could work anything from 16 -30 hours a week and what started our as a way if getting out the house and earning some money to take the kids out sometimes turns into full time demand of your physical.and mental time.

Course if you are really lucky they do this for extended probation periods so can drop you any time they want with zero notice for no reason

Plus to be fair I dont think its unique to retail. I've had jobs in catering that were equally bad.

Arranging an appointment in a day off? How dare you

If you need 40 hours a week covered. Hire someone for 40 hours a week. Or even 2 for 20.

What shouldnt be the default setting is routinely rota them.on for extra hours and make you feel guilty for leaving someone on their own. Cos whatever you do to help them out never gets noticed. They only notice the one time you say no because you have plans. Rare ones at that because theres no escaping the phone.

I.wish someone could explain wtf happens. Is there some sort of mass exodus when a newbie starts? Did the shop/cafe/pub just not open? Cos how does a business go from filling a part time waiting staff for a thursday and Friday to all.of a sudden everything hinging on whether the staff can all do double their hours...