Naughty kids (my own)

[Sorryandstressed]

Posting for traffic more than anything else (I'm fairly sure I am being unreasonable- or at least a bad parent)

I have three DC, 7, 4 and 2. And between the three of them they're never happy.

Dc1 is constantly miserable, ungrateful etc. Prone to horrific tantrums and outbursts and physically lashes out at me. Doesn't do this at school of at grandparents though, so I'm loathe to say there is some sort of SN

Dc2 is a bit whingy sometimes but nothing outside of what is age appropriate (generally a good kid)

DC3 is a miniature version of dc1. Volatile and angry although obviously the tantrums are more expected at this age.

Between the three of them I cannot win. Days out are ruined (normally by dc1 or 3), they all whine if we stay in. They're incapable of sitting and watching a film or tv etc

I've tried every approach to discipline I can think of, naughty steps, star charts, bribery, removing privileges etc but none of it works.

I need help! Any suggestions?

Oh I've tried discussions etc and positive reinforcement etc but it's 'in one ear and out of the other'

Sympathy from me OP. One thing my Mum said about my DB was that certain E numbers made him go crazy/aggressive, often in green sweets, cheap fizzy drinks etc. My DC1 went bonkers the other days after pic n mix, so maybe there is some truth in it?!

Take DC2 out for a trip. Leave DC1. All this nicey nicey talking isn't working. Besides, when they are in a rage, they don't hear what you say, all sense and logic goes out the window.

You need to get firm. Do you have support? No mention of a partner for back up (some kids want to rule the roost, more difficult if parents are a united front). What is he angry about?

If he bucks his ideas up, then he can go.

I too would look at sleep.
Keep to regular bedtimes and only ever shift them by at most 30 minutes.
2&4 year old bedtime at more or less same time?
7 year old has bath on own while you are settling them with a story CD or music for company.
Then 7yo gets 30-45mins focussed 1-1 time with you, e.g. playing a board game, then story then bedtime.

The next thing I'd look at is routine /tick charts etc. So they know what is going to happen the next day. Agree not whole days out, but less stressful like going to the park. With that try to quit while you are ahead (don't wait for the tantrums).

Try to catch them being good so you can praise. Small treats for all when all have been good. (So no incentive to wind each other up as they all lose the treat).

Have you tried asking DC1 about their behaviour, in a wondering kind of way? 'Sometimes you don't seem very happy to me, that makes me sad. I was wondering if I am right, and if so what we could do about it?'

Does DC1 get any rewards / privileges for being the eldest?

My dh is great he's already volunteered to take a day off if needed so I can take the little ones out and leave dc1 home. It's just my guilty conscience.

I think me and dc1 are very different personalities and they try to be dominant.

Bedtime is very consistent. We get complaints that friends are up later etc but I've explained that later bedtimes will only happen if behaviour improves.

Some great advice on this thread am so pleased I posted. Sorry if I've missed any questions it's been a hectic afternoon.

When I ask why the meltdowns I get a shrug of the shoulders or a vacant stare.

Thank you to the op who called me a good mum. I don't feel like one right now

Dc1 gets later bedtime for some quality time with me and dh, watching TV, playing board games etc. Also allowed to play on the front with friends (very quiet road I watch from window), gets to do certain activities of their choosing etc also we make sure they get alone time if the little ones are getting on their nerves (that was one alleged reason for being unhappy so we resolved it)

Your eldest sounds exactly like my eldest...incidentally it's funny the nUmber of pps who have said the same! Is it an eldest dc thing?

My eldest dc is now 16 and much much more in control of her emotions and behaviour. She still commands the most attention out of my three dc and she can still be exhausting to deal with but it's much easier now.

As a child, on a bad day, no amount of attention was enough for her, she was jealous of her siblings and so treated them appallingly i.e. was bossy, hyper critical of them, called them names etc.

She didn't respond positively to any consequences at all, just screamed and screamed until she had to be 'talked down' but then would repeat whatever bad behaviour got her there in the first place.

I firmly believe she has some ASD traits, I've read up on ODD, Aspergers, anxiety, PDA but none seem to fully fit .

I suppose what I'm saying is, your eldest may improve over time but I would start making notes on his behaviour and what the trigger was and see the gp for advice.

I wish I had done it with my dd but I felt I would be fobbed off because she was extremely well behaved at school and she rarely, if ever, had a meltdown in front of others.

and they try to be dominant

This is quite telling

Kids need a leader and if you aren’t being firm and consistent they struggle to know where the boundaries are and try to be a leader themselves.

It may seem cruel to be kind, if you’re rude to friends they don’t invite you, if you hit someone they’d ignore you, it’s a life lesson.

Be firm and mean it, write out the rules and stick to them

It seems he’s getting all the treats and doesn’t have to earn it - he should feel proud he’s earnt rewards instead it’s just expected entitlement.

If it helps my youngest aged 8 has been bloody awful these holidays. Think too much time on their hands, over stimulated and tired. I'm struggling myself dealing with him and normally he is good for me but naughty for his older siblings. Just keep smiling!

When I ask why the meltdowns I get a shrug of the shoulders or a vacant stare.

Which makes me feel they don't understand their emotions yet or how to verbalise them. Instead they hit and shout to get your attention so that you can sort it out for them. And as you say, it won't be great when they are a teenager (let alone now) if this isn't resolved.

It could well be something you explore further and work through with your DC (www.elsa-support.co.uk), but people that struggle with recognising their own emotions or emotions in others could also point to ASD HF (aka Aspergers). Honestly, I'd keep a diary of what happens and what the triggers are, because if nothing else it could help you see a pattern, or if you go down the route of SEN at some point, you'll have a good record.

That's actually a really good idea re keeping a journal. We've had another morning from hell today and am now at my wit's end.

Grandparents house at the weekend for them all

I wouldn't rule out SN! Masking is common, often parents of children with SN are told their child is "lovely" at school etc. But they save up all their bad behaviour for home. (Because "home" is the place they can let it all out, and they have to let it out somewhere.)

I would try to keep records and try to spot patterns. When do things kick off? Mornings, afternoons, evenings? Before, during or after meals? When transitions happen? Is it as bad if you give more warning of transitions? Is it worse if rushed? Does changing clothes cause a problem?
And try to "catch and praise" good behaviour. It might be helpful to make yourself a star chart and give yourself a start each time you catch each child being good. Aim for 10 stars a day, so start by praising even very minor good behaviour (leaving the room, even if they slammed the door rather than hitting sibling or sitting on chair for 2 minutes).

Asking my DD anything about her emotions used to cause a major meltdown - she still doesn't understand her own emotions or rightly attribute what caused her to get upset (and she is a lot older than yours).

And ignoring rather than arguing helps. With my older DD, I spent a lot of time telling her something like "We need to leave for X in 30 minutes". Then she would start ranting. But if I ignored it. Then reminded her 10 minutes before, and helped with the last minute panics "Where are my shoes". Then we usually got out just fine.

As the parent of two with similar problems who are now teens I would suggest that this 'guilt' thing needs looked at, Dc1 is definitely playing on this. Do remember you are their parent not their best friend. You are in charge and you and your DP make the rules. It's a good idea to have special times with Dc1 but at 7 they should still be getting plenty of sleep. Half and hour extra was plenty in our house.
Having two with what we now know are sensory integration problems has been an eye opener. It has made us reassess how we deal with everything. Have a look at a 'Sensory Diet' and see if there are some things there that could help. At that age we found a trampoline and swing really good for regulating our two. Lots of outdoor time doing simple things like going to the park, woods, walk, seaside worked really well. Burnt off loads of energy and frustration and they certainly slept better.
If sensory things ring a bell, perhaps a weighted blanket for sleeping or weighted vest could help.

I wouldn't rule out sen because a child is okay with others. My asd child masks with every one and we pay the price at home when they're exhausted from it

Was going to post this. I know it gets mentioned on here a lot, but honestly "The Explosive Child" is a really useful read. Not focussed on any particular SEN, just on certain behaviours. My daughter is, and always has been, an absolute angel at school. At home, we have been through some hellish times (biting, scratching, hitting etc). Using strategies designed to work with ASD have turned things around for us. She was never naughty, we just didn't understand her needs properly. Now that we do, things are so much better - she's much happier too.

How is he with the grandparents?

Angelic for the most part

And how do they treat him? Are they more consistent?

They spoil more and are definitely 'fun' grandparents. But at the same time are quite strict. Dc1 is definitely a little fearful of misbehaving for them. They were very strict with me and my siblings.