Naughty kids (my own)

[Sorryandstressed]

Posting for traffic more than anything else (I'm fairly sure I am being unreasonable- or at least a bad parent)

I have three DC, 7, 4 and 2. And between the three of them they're never happy.

Dc1 is constantly miserable, ungrateful etc. Prone to horrific tantrums and outbursts and physically lashes out at me. Doesn't do this at school of at grandparents though, so I'm loathe to say there is some sort of SN

Dc2 is a bit whingy sometimes but nothing outside of what is age appropriate (generally a good kid)

DC3 is a miniature version of dc1. Volatile and angry although obviously the tantrums are more expected at this age.

Between the three of them I cannot win. Days out are ruined (normally by dc1 or 3), they all whine if we stay in. They're incapable of sitting and watching a film or tv etc

I've tried every approach to discipline I can think of, naughty steps, star charts, bribery, removing privileges etc but none of it works.

I need help! Any suggestions?

Oh I've tried discussions etc and positive reinforcement etc but it's 'in one ear and out of the other'

And to be fair, if one of mine kicked the door and screamed for an hour, they’d be grounded for a couple of days. I’m a bit of a disciplinarian though.

I would write a list of expected behaviours and a list of what happens when things don’t go to plan.

You could consider a weekly planner with ‘walk’ ‘library’ ‘DC1 choice’ DC2 choice’

Look at rewards - good day, DC1 can earn extra staying up time. Yellow day bed on time. Red day bed early.

Get him to agree and refer to the chart.

Sorryandstressed I have no advice but just wanted to say my dd1 who is 6 is the same as your eldest. She has always had major tantrums and now can behave awfully, screaming, hitting out, stomping etc. Nothing we do can get her out of it we just have to wait to blow over. She's lovely at school and mostly with other people (can occasionally play up with my grandparents)

I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone!

How are dc1 and dc3 around noise? Have you noticed improved mood when there is less noise? It took me years to figure out my ds is calmer away from noise and very irritable with constant noise.

They shouldn't be doing this at nearly 8 should they?

Sorry OP - but yes they can. My DD1 (10) has been screaming at me and DD2 for weeks now, almost 24/7. She's currently in her room where she's fallen asleep after screaming and crying and threatening to kill herself for over an hour.

If you find a magical solution, please let me know.

Perhaps flip it. Really reward for every positive actions. Rather than punish bad ones. It emphasises that attention can be sought, byt for good reasons, not bad. Also love-bombing.
It worked for my SN child, a bit. But he's got complex sn profile. So it's constant work in progress.
I stand in solidarity with you, from a far.
It's really fucking hard, i know. But you're over half way through the holidays now! Well done for that

I have a 10 yr old DD and I've found the best way of getting her to calm down in these situations is to totally ignore her (hard because I really want her to see how unreasonable she's being and so tend to keep going on at her when actually nothing goes in when she's in a temper) and it's much easier to reason with her when she's calm. So you could try completely ignoring any bad/aggressive behaviour and literally walk away. If necessary tell her you'll speak to her when she's calm but otherwise don't engage.

I think love bombing works better when they are sad than when they are angry.

We do lots of arty things together, we have late nights where dad is out and we watch a film (well I do) and make popcorn etc. I take to most activities.

My dm and Df think I'm spoiling them and need to get really strict but I don't know what else to do (I was smacked as a child. Don't believe it did me harm but I don't smack my kids)

I'm loathe to take the little ones and leave him behind (mainly cos I'd feel awful) but Maybe I should get over that.

Thanks for all your suggestions though. I have considered Sen (ds2 has had some sensory issues) but they seem to be able to turn it on and off as they seem fit

I'm lucky that my DPS are fab as is my dh so thankfully I do have support (don't know how people manage without, must be horrific). I'm contemplating sending them all to gps for a couple of days so I can have a break and

Having read some of your further replies, I'd ask GP for referal to Paediatrician. See if they can support or have suggestions Xx

You need to show him how you expect him to treat you.

Yes leave him behind if that’s what you’ve told him

Also when our set out the rules first

‘If x happens we will go straight home’ And mean it!! End with a positive ‘if you play nicely and come home when asked, well stop for ice cream’ do this until you drop the treat and work on the next issue

Look into incredible years programme online, don't follow it to a rule as like any parenting course, some things work, some don't.

If you have a health visitor for DC3, ask them for help and if not, speak to school and it might be the school nurse that refers to early help or school itself, but if you explain the situation, it may be that you could be put forward for a bit of support with this. I was referred to Family Support Worker and I found going on this course (incredible years) helped more in regards to moral support than techniques they gave but even if you get some support from them its better than nothing.

I hope things get better soon for you

Do you have a routine? Kids like routine because they know what is happening next.

After DC1 has calmed down, you say you talk it through. What reason do they give for hitting and screaming? Are they able to admit they have done it? Do they say sorry? And then it happens again? Or do they deny it and blame you/someone else?

Can you sit down and talk about "when I'm feeling angry I...." - are they able to recognise their feelings? Recognise others feelings?

Dont bother with the bedroom for punishment put her outside I shut my ds outside a number of times (not locked he could have walked back in) he calmed down faster and there were less weapons out there for him to break

I have left a naughty one behind. I have made them miss planned treat outings. I only needed to do it once or twice and the threat was enough because they knew I’d follow through.

Sounds awful, but you need to know their weak spot. For DS it was going to watch football with his Dad; he loved it. I stopped him going once when he was about 12 for being very rude to me. He didn’t do it again, or rather he started, but pulled back when he was warned.

It’s horrible being mean to them. But if family life and relationships are better in the long run, it’s worth it.

Disclaimer: you need to be sure that she absolutely has no SENs impacting on her behaviour.

From experience, if putting her in her room causes a bigger reaction (aggression/screaming/kicking etc) then change tact.
I used to do this in the hope that it was a deterrent for bad behaviour, but it actually only escalated undesirable behaviour more.
Try asking her what would make her feel better, distract her with a cuddle or 5 minutes of your time doing something unrelated to punishment/praise, or simply ignoring the behaviour and focussing attention in whichever DC is behaving best at the time!
Also 7 is still young enough for sticker charts...keep them positive behaviour based and do not remove stickers/stars for bad behaviour...and start small! Hour by hour if you have too, rather than a full day. Then extend to 'morning' and 'afternoon' chart and if she has more than one star/sticker she gets a sweet/choose what's for dinner/favourite cartoon on tv.
You're doing your best, don't forget that x

If sleep.is a trigger that's what I'd be looking at first. I have a 4yo who is like that when tired or overwhelmed. Completely different child when well rested. If they won't sleep later in the morning the stick to same early bedtime each night. Annoying I know but it preserves my sanity.

I would also change the time out to something different as that is setting off a major meltdown.

Thank you all so much for your help. Even knowing I'm not the only one is so helpful. My nieces and nephews aren't like this at all so I end up feeling like a shit mum.

I'm definitely going to speak to my gp just to rule things out though.

One thing I am unsure of is, if one DC is naughty (older two really) and I'm taking them out somewhere as a group, if I can't leave the naughty one behind do I cancel the trip? Do I not let one DC participate? If I've promised them an ice cream do I not let the naughty one have one but make them watch the other two?

I sound pathetic but I feel so guilty all of the time. I also struggle with apportioning different levels of punishment for behaviour ie obviously the little one is still too young to understand much, the middle one is too small to go to their room (we have a naughty step) but then the older one acts hard done to because their consequence is bigger iyswim.

I wouldn't rule out sen because a child is okay with others. My asd child masks with every one and we pay the price at home when they're exhausted from it

Depends

If you say If you do x well go home then yes take them all home and mean it

Your eldest sounds similar to my eldest in a lot of ways. He got the most attention but was the worst behaved, but lovely in school. After much self blame, checking with professionals and hand wringing, I self diagnosed him with mild Opposition Defiant Disorder. The Google explanation for this fit him perfectly, but I've never had it confirmed by a professional.

I pressed send too soon. The treatment for mild ODD is positive, consistent parenting, which is what we were doing (mostly).

The good news is he seems to be growing out of it. He is 9 now and much less difficult than he used to be. Hang in there

Consequences at that age should be immediate, and a warning given beforehand IMHO. So only withhold an ice-cream if it is something you are just about to do, not something 4 hours later, because by then they may be back on track and being good and you'll feel bad for withholding an ice cream.

But really, I'd want to get behind why your child is getting so angry. What is happening before it kicks off? You've mentioned arguing over a toy @Sorryandstressed - was it anyone's toy in particular eg DC1 and they're possessive? Or was it a general toy? You're chats with DC1 could answer what the issues are, and then the appropriate path to take.

You sound like a lovely mum, maybe it’s just personality? It sounds like you have boundaries and follow through, maybe try being stricter. Have you asked your oldest why they behave in this way? (I’m sure you have!)

My son is much younger but already I can see that when he has not had enough sleep his behaviour is so, so much worse. Aggressive, hitting for no reason, zero attention span, says no to everything, screaming/tantrums etc.

Have you got a solid consistent routine at bedtime? If eldest doesnt sleep in & can't cope on later nights, they need to go to bed earlier, whether they like it or not. You are the parent, your rules. If necessary be sneaky about it, change the clock so they think it's later etc.