to think that all UK secondary schools are like army camps?

[Ceci03]

So I'm trying to re-locate to the uk and have another job interview tomorrow. Looking at schools in the area though, I'm a bit concerned about all the rules and regulations they seem to have. They all seem to be extremely strict, what with uniform regulations, detentions, and a huge amount of rules. My ds /dd have been attending a fairly progressive (state) school in Ireland and I'm worried how they are going to cope with it all. Are all (state) schools in the uk like this. It sounds scary.

I agree OP.
Many kids and parents do too now. The rates of home education are rocketing in britain.

Oh dear OP!

How do you imagine schools would work if they didn't have rules?

Its good for children to learn to take a bit of pride in their appearance, treat each other with respect and practice time management. That's pretty much what the rules cover.

They vary massively I would say although uniform is the norm.

My son attends a non uniform school in the midlands where they call teachers by their first names. I think it is great but it puts some patents off. Not loads of homework in y7 while settling in. I am told it increases. They are very good about not tolerating bullying etc and their exam results improve year on year. They have a ‘good’ ofsted rating.

The rates of home education are rocketing in britain.

But not because of too many rules.

Yes, I was going to say, come to Scotland as well. You would still in the UK! The schools up here are very easy going; certainly in the north. I think it might be that they don't have to compete with each other. So they don't have the competitive strictness. With fixed catchments, no school can boast about being oversubscribed. One thing I hate to see outside English schools is large boards advertising the schools 'SATs' results! It just makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Hahahahahaha.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

If anything there's nowhere near enough discipline, teachers lack control, students know there's very few consequences to their actions... I say this as a teacher who has worked in the UK and abroad.

Personally my own secondary school resembled a slightly less posh St Trinian's.

^The rates of home education are rocketing in britain.

But not because of too many rules.^

For all sorts of reasons of which 'too many rules' may indeed be one!

www.tes.com/news/exclusive-four-10-teachers-struggle-behaviour

“Teachers warn that deteriorating behaviour and a lack of support from management is 'bringing the profession to its knees'

The majority of teachers say classroom behaviour has got worse
The proportion of teachers reporting difficulty in managing pupil behaviour has increased “significantly” since last year, according to new research.

More than four in 10 teachers now say they are struggling to cope with poor behaviour.

Many teachers say they are not being adequately supported by their senior leadership teams with behaviour management, according to the research by the Education Support Partnership – a charity that supports teachers with poor mental health.”

So no, not all schools in the UK are run like army camps and if you have a choice of schools who have a handle on behaviour then you are actually lucky.

For all sorts of reasons of which 'too many rules' may indeed be one!

I really doubt it. I think rates of HE are rocketing because schools have become increasingly chaotic environments where people ignore rules, and lots of children can’t cope with the stress of such environments.

I think some schools obsess over uniform rules because they struggle to enforce behaviour rules.

It may look like that if you come from abroad. I was especially taken aback by those blazer&tie uniforms (i still think they look hideous, unless on tv).
However, children here seem to like and enjoy school. My school was very "liberal" on rules, but was such a miserable mess otherwise that i'm still surprised we didn't burn the shithole down.

I really doubt it. I think rates of HE are rocketing because schools have become increasingly chaotic environments where people ignore rules, and lots of children can’t cope with the stress of such environments.
No, people don't choose HE because they're obsessed about colour of socks. They want alternative curriculum, different learning pace, less stress over constant testing and attendance records - these things.
Also rules for the sake of rules are never going to be productive.

No, people don't choose HE because they're obsessed about colour of socks.

I don’t believe I said that or anything like it.

Mine came from fairly progressive schools in New Zealand. Hasn't been a problem. But then again, they were expected by their parents as well as the school and teachers to conform to the rules (including uniform) in their schools there, and so it wasn't too great a shock to the system to be required to do so here .

What are the rules about what your children wear to school at the moment, OP? Why do ours seem different?

Totally agree that the uniform rules are OTT and in my view there should be no homework until year 10 other than reading (and tables in primary school).

I am not sure how schools overseas manage the crowd control.

I do agree with no term time holidays though other than in special circumstances. In England the holidays make up 1/4 of the year, plenty of time to go on holiday (and you only get fined after a week anyway so you can take a week out of school without a problem).

I know a few parents from other European countries (France and Germany) and they do find the UK rules a little over the top. They particularly find the uniform policies weird. Interesting to see the UK school system through the eyes of others. Can you describe the progressive nature of the school they are at now?

They might have a shock in respect of the length of the summer holidays

and in my view there should be no homework until year 10 other than reading (and tables in primary school).

Really? Don’t you think that will affect how much they learn?

in my view there should be no homework until year 10 other than reading (and tables in primary school)

What about learning how to write essays for English and History?

It would be a total waste of class time for students to use a lesson to write essays while the teacher sits there doing nothing.

Do you seriously think children shouldn’t even be introduced to the concept of essays until they start their GCSEs?

Yes, there is an increasing trend in schools, particularly secondary schools, to go for ridiculously rigid rules and sanctions regimes, often combined with equally ridiculously strict rules about uniforms. They're frequently seen, particularly by new academy heads, as an easy fix and/or something that will impress parents. In many cases they are unlawful because they do not allow any exceptions for disability, and there is a serious concern that this sort of practice is a substitute for good teaching which engages pupils.

It's by no means universal, however, so do look around carefully and you may strike lucky.

well just reading the websites of the schools they seem obsessed with the uniforms and the shoes and the punishments. I hope it's not that bad when youre actually there. I know a lot of people love uniforms but whats wrong with letting our teens express themselves. Sometimes I think it causes battles that are unnecessary in the long run. Are we raising our kids to be 'worker bees' who conform, or to be free thinkers. Food for thought!

That's just how things are here 🤷🏼‍♀️ if it's an issue then don't live here, surely?

Yes but your workerbees will need a job so will need to follow rules at some point. My dsis has to wear a uniform to work but she can still think for herself.